Blog Comments

  1. bimble's Avatar
    well... I didn't start my practice with the FMJ's with an end like this....

    and before you ask, I only had time to shoot two arrows as I discovered that I hadn't switched my hinge back from RH from when I was showing a friend how to shoot a hinge!!
  2. fanio's Avatar
    proof that the FMJs are better than X10s.

    :-)
  3. barney41262's Avatar
    try relaxing the index finger as well as pulling with the other fingers,only a wee bit though.
  4. bimble's Avatar
    The idea is to shoot the hinge... I can (and have) shot ends of 58 with it (and down to 52) at 50m so I know I can shoot it well... it's just doing it consistantly... and yes, I could have said the same about the trigger!!

    I have shot the hinge on occasion before, so it wasn't a totally new experience... though before I had never even shot it for an entire training session let alone for an entire competition. I was always very conscious of it, especially on the draw as I was always worried of it going off at that point. That hasn't been a problem as yet (though I did have one shot at Overton where it went off when my thumb came off the peg). The shot process is becoming more automatic, but I do find myself taking my thumb off the peg, tucking it in and then resting it on the nail of my index finger... which only makes it that much harder for the release to rotate in my hand!! I'll be there, pulling and pulling thinking, "just go off," realise my thumb is on my finger, loosening it a bit a boom!!... but I'm getting better at that!!
  5. geoffretired's Avatar
    When using a different kind of release aid,for the first time, it is very easy( seems normal) to think about how you are operating it. Do you think you were "too conscious" of the hinge?
  6. fanio's Avatar
    will you be shooting the hinge?
  7. Darryl's Avatar
    Hi Bimbe, saw you there. Would of said Hi, have seen you around at a few shoots, my girlfriend shot with you I think lastyear at the Soton H2. I'd have to agree that I didn't feel that the course was that challenging. I don't shoot that many field comps, Purbrook was the last field shoot I shot and found it hard because of the wind. This course I was up by 20pts both days on what I shot at Purbrook. I spoke to a few people and they said they didn't find it that hard. If I didn't find it that challenging then I'm sure seasoned shooters would of found it a doddle.
  8. geoffretired's Avatar
    Heehee, I love that reference to maths. It is so true; we have to go through someone else's thinking in order to really understand what they mean. Maths almost forces us to follow; ordinary explanations often allow us to miss what had to be understood, as there are rarely any check marks along the way.
    Love that post!!
  9. UltraFox's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffretired
    UltraFox, my thinking is just that.... mine. I do not say what the top archers do, just what I try to do.
    There are other ways, and I have tried those ,too.
    I just feel that the draw and the strong feelings will overpower any delicate movements. By blending the delicate into the strong, it just seems.... right somehow.
    Like learning the math, I wasnt able to solve arithmetical problem myself just after listening the explanation and watching our teacher doing it, I had to think hard myself using the notes as a guiding principles not a manual if I ever wanted to apply the knowledge practically and true... and only after that the figures start making sense(even the university rubish) and knowing the correct result is hepling to be sure one get it right... thank you all for the guiding
  10. geoffretired's Avatar
    UltraFox, my thinking is just that.... mine. I do not say what the top archers do, just what I try to do.
    There are other ways, and I have tried those ,too.
    I just feel that the draw and the strong feelings will overpower any delicate movements. By blending the delicate into the strong, it just seems.... right somehow.
  11. UltraFox's Avatar
    fanio: thanks... one of my frieds is saving up for some basic hobby compound setup so Ill be back ...its also the reason Im reading about the compounds and its making me curious (also if my thoughts are right because he is supposing Ill be a help to him as an archer) ... also the standards for a coach licence here contains knowledge about the compounds
  12. fanio's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFox
    Still cant left the thoughts about the firearms behind as it is helping me to shoot a finger relased recurve... but I feel I really should have tried to shoot the compound before I join the discussion about it so I get a better idea about the subject
    I think you often bring some really interesting thinking / philosophy to the discussions/blogs, so you should not refrain from giving your thoughts.
  13. fanio's Avatar
    @ UltraFox: for your 2 posts above: no - as I have said, there should be no "isolated muscle group" (i.e. finger/hand) involved. You put and then keep the relevant finger (thumb/first finger) in place, and keep pulling the bow. That's it. ZERO conscious movement of thumb or first finger to trigger, and NO finger squeeze at all.
  14. UltraFox's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffretired
    I think of a weight lifter with a huge weight held above his head and trying to wiggle his toes.
    I can "see" that pulling the bow against the stops can mask the triggering action so it seems the drawing did the work, not a delicate press. That delicate, or not so delicate, press must have been learnt deliberately at some stage, and allowed to run on automatic when the time was right.
    so just my little ad... well thats what have been confusing me - at the end of the draw compounders even with a massive letoff still works with the force much bigger that what is needed to pull the trigger so I couldnt imagine the situation "the bow is helping to pull the trigger" and Im looking at the triggering as a work of the isolated muscle or muscle group
  15. geoffretired's Avatar
    Connected(I think) to this discussion, is something I have been running through in my head for some time now.
    As the release of the arrow approaches, we are trying to maintain out posture(including the bow in that) and continue to draw the bow, as opposed to letting it pull us back the other way.
    At the point of the release, I feel as if my efforts have "snapped the string".( If you snap a piece of string there is a feeling very similar to releasing an arrow.)
    The string snaps as there is a build up of tension on it. In that sense, when I am shooting I feel I am getting stronger as the shot sequence progresses towards that release/snap. That feeling of getting stronger, makes me think that trying to fit in something very delicate, like a tiny press on a light trigger, would be very distracting.
    I think of a weight lifter with a huge weight held above his head and trying to wiggle his toes.
    I can "see" that pulling the bow against the stops can mask the triggering action so it seems the drawing did the work, not a delicate press. That delicate, or not so delicate, press must have been learnt deliberately at some stage, and allowed to run on automatic when the time was right.
  16. UltraFox's Avatar
    Fanio: by precise control of the trigger I mean of course the perfectly smooth pressure control - the point here when shooting a gun is to focus on the smoothness - like working with the back tension... when Im thinking about the shot during the training, to me it is more like: yeah, now the sight picture looks nice it would be nice if the shot go in that moment but Im not there yet, have to keep pulling(squeezing) nice and smooth... not even thinking about altering the triggering proces that is ultimate-ban ... keep calm better scoring with not so perfectly aimed than bad relased...

    with the wrist relase I was thinking about that as a separate elements merged together - the back tension and the trigger pressure, because you have informations sent from two separate parts of the body... nerves sensitive for a pressure to control the raising pressure at the trigger and the back tension that sould be synchronized... ideally unconsciously... talking about the human shooting machine... thinking about me as a soul in the body like the driver in a semiautomatic car

    Still cant left the thoughts about the firearms behind as it is helping me to shoot a finger relased recurve... but I feel I really should have tried to shoot the compound before I join the discussion about it so I get a better idea about the subject
  17. fanio's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFox
    Hi,
    ...raising the pressure on it by your finger nice and smoothly... one has to set his trigger so he will be able to get the perfect control over the proces (of adding the pressure)...
    and
    Geoff, well that difference was the reason I would choose the wrist relase which is supposed to allow a relaxed forehand and surgeons precision over the index finger...
    As Geoff says, the bow tries to pull the trigger from your hand. Correct technique with a release aid is NOT to "squeeze" the trigger as in pistol/rifle shooting, but to LET the tendency of the bow to pull the release aid work with you so there is NO conscious attempt to make the trigger go.

    When you get it right, it almost feels as if the release has triggered itself (and there is almost no difference between shooting with a thumb trigger and a hinge release, and the moment of release is a surprise).

    If I was switching straight from firearms to a compoud Id go for the wrist wrapped relase with pistol type trigger as that would give me completely relaxed hand and precise control over the trigger...
    again, it sounds counter-intuitive, but precise control over the trigger is the last thing you want when shooting a compound bow. You definitely do not want surgeon's precision on the finger. This almost inevitably leads to anticipation and "flinching". Me, Geoffretired and thousands of others have also learned this the hard way. My own flinching started when I was using a wrist release with a "spring trigger" which is meant to encourage a slow smooth squeezing of the trigger. This carried over to thumb release. It became so bad that I would unexpectedly miss the whole target at 20y.

    It is slightly more difficult, but still possible, to shoot without conscious control with a wrist (i.e. index finger) release, than with a thumb release. The extra sensitivity in the index finger makes it more difficult to execute the shot with "pure back tension", and so you are more likely to "punch" the trigger (i.e. trigger consciously); You do not squeeze the trigger, you wrap the finger solidly, relax the hand, and keep pulling with the back.


    "Surprise release" execution with a release aid is actually quite similar to proper execution with a recurve with clicker - you keep pulling until the shot goes off / the clicker drops. In both cases, you maintain the backwards pressure, but with release aid this gives follow through. With recurve, when the clicker drops you relax your fingers. If you do it right you don't have to "decide" to release when you hear the clicker - it is automatic, so the clicker in effect turns the recurve release into a surprise release as well - and this of course is the real advantage to clickers (rather than a draw length check, which is really only "important" for relative novices.)
  18. UltraFox's Avatar
    Geoff, well that difference was the reason I would choose the wrist relase which is supposed to allow a relaxed forehand and surgeons precision over the index finger... if Ill be holding the relase with fingers I suppose that Ill need a stiffer (thumb) trigger to balance the tension that is already here so Ill be able to hold it perfectly at the place without any added imbalanced tension... if the bow "is hepling" to pull the trigger Ill probably balace it for that case the same way... but I should try the compound sometimes ... the ballance in the string grip with finger relase is also very important...
    as. ex. from the air pistol I was once solving an issue that the shots were placed up the centre - the problem was that the index finger produced more pressure than the rest, I had to balance it adding more pressure to the grip by ring and pinky figers to hold em perfectly centered - youre balancing the dynamic process to keep the aiming at the point while adding the pressure (there Im talking about milimetres, but the ten was only 10mm and the projectile 4,5mm in diameter after all)

    Bimble: sniper rifles are fun, but the shooting ranges long enough to produce some challenge for that kind of a gun are quite rare ... so I liked the long range pistol, 50m for 5cm ten to hit by a pistol is more then enough ... black powders are the real fun - I like the smoke screen
  19. bimble's Avatar
    I can see what you mean about fiddling there Geoff... thankfully, two springs down from where I was, was far too light (and I then dropped that spring somewhere) and so it's a choice of the spring now in the release, or the one that was in there before. Both of which are heavy enough to allow me to wrap my thumb around the trigger. And if I do start getting stronger with the BT I can always up the spring....

    Hi Ultrafox, I've not had the chance to shoot pistols, though I did once go to an NRA open day at Bisley which was a lot of fun. By far and away my favourite was the 1000yd match rifle, helped by it being a lovely sunny day with no wind!! I did try some black-powder revolvers... I was rubbish!!
  20. geoffretired's Avatar
    One of the differences between pistols and bows, is the way the bow is trying to pull the release aid from the drawing hand. The pistol has no such tendency.
    It is possible with a bow, to grip the release aid in such a way, that the bow pulls the trigger towards the finger or thumb, so long as the hand is not gripping ever more tightly as the bow tension is building. In one way, it is like a finger shooting having their fingers pulled open by the bow string at release.
    How does that fit in with your ideas? I am not disagreeing, just curious.
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