Beginner's Equipment

Aqueminy

New member
Hello,

I've started in archery 3 weeks ago, having tried 3 or 4 diferent bows (wood recurve, Olympic recurve and compound) at the local Club (Lisbon), during the 3 sessions I had.

The recurve was the one I enjoyed the most. As so I asked the coach for some pointers in buying my fisrt recurve bow (he owns an archery shop).

The equipment he advised me was: 1- Samick Avante riser with Samick Athlete Limbs (not sure if fiber or carbon )
2- Cartel Xpert riser with Cartel Fantom limbs
3- Cartel Fantom riser with Cartel Fantom Limbs

He also told that i could match any of the given limbs with any riser.

The thing is that I'm not sure if this equipment is the proper one for me, and since i will be spending around 300 euros plus I would like to have more opinions about the quality of this equipment for a beginner.

Have in mind that altough i'm new to archery i'm willing to learn an practice as much and i can, because I've just fallen in love for this sport.

I've read about Samick moving it's production to china and how it downgraded the overall quality of it's products... and how Cartel usually copys other brands models and produce cheaper and low quality.. Is this true? or are they reliable ?

I just want to be sure I'm buying the best equipment within my 350 euros budget.

Thanks a lot
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Fair enough, and yes you instructor is correct longbows do have a steeper learning curve than other bows as they aren't designed for accuracy. I was just wondering.
 

mk1

It's an X
Supporter
If depends whether the budget you state is just for the bow or for everything you need - bow, limbs, sight, tab, arrows quiver and bag for the lot.
you generally get what you pay for, Cheaper sights for instance will be made out of cheaper metal and not to such fine tolerances so will shake loose sooner rather than later, ditto cheap buttons - so a bit of extra money on those items or anything with screws in it really :) will be a good investment in the medium term.

Cheap limbs are advised to start with - the most important thing there is to buy a set of a weight you can manage well so it is advisable to go somewhere you can try them. Risers you need to be happy with the weight and feel in the hand. I'd recommend spending as much as you can afford on a riser - so compare the Samick and the Cartel and ask what you get for your extra money. Cartel are famous for making low cost starter equipment, Samick are famous for making excellent risers.

I hope this helps
 

Aqueminy

New member
If depends whether the budget you state is just for the bow or for everything you need - bow, limbs, sight, tab, arrows quiver and bag for the lot.
you generally get what you pay for, Cheaper sights for instance will be made out of cheaper metal and not to such fine tolerances so will shake loose sooner rather than later, ditto cheap buttons - so a bit of extra money on those items or anything with screws in it really :) will be a good investment in the medium term.

Cheap limbs are advised to start with - the most important thing there is to buy a set of a weight you can manage well so it is advisable to go somewhere you can try them. Risers you need to be happy with the weight and feel in the hand. I'd recommend spending as much as you can afford on a riser - so compare the Samick and the Cartel and ask what you get for your extra money. Cartel are famous for making low cost starter equipment, Samick are famous for making excellent risers.

I hope this helps

Thanks for your reply

I will have a 350euro budget for all the equipment.

The thing is that I really just have started and I feel that will spend money in equipment that in a month or two can become unusable either because e feel I can move up in pounds ( I'm pulling 30# at the moment) or because I find it doesn't feels particulary good (since I don't have the experince to determine exactly what I want).

I'm not even sure if I prefer an olympic recurve or a field recurve (wood made take down).

It seems more wise to me to spend 100euros now and invest on a better bow later ( and maybe then I feel confidence in spendind more than the actual 350 budget, because I know what i want).

So I've this doubt: how far can I develop my tecnique with a beginner's bow ( like a Samick Polaris Take-down or a Internature Javelina for 80pounds ) ? What distance can you efectevely aim with this basic bows? Will they interfere with my progression?
 
I'm a beginner myself having only bought my first bow in November last year so don't take anything I say as Gospel, I just merely offer my opinion based on my own limited experience.

In regards to the Cartel Fantom Limbs. There is a very good argument to say to not spend a fortune on your first set of limbs because you will replace them and you might replace them quite quickly depending on how frequently you shoot etc. My wife has these limbs on her bow that she also bought in November and she thinks that they are absolutely fine for her. Personally I don't think that they are as smooth as the limbs I bought but that could just be the fact that her limbs are lot lighter, different riser etc etc. The limbs I bought don't cost much more than the Fantoms but I feel are better, these are the Sebastian Flute Premium. In the UK these cost around ?30 more than the Fantoms and to me it was worth the extra expense but I wouldn't say it was essential to have spent the extra.

As for the two risers you mention. I don't know if you are male or female, how tall you are or how old you are etc but I would certainly say that the Xpert is perhaps more suitable for ladies or youngsters due to its size and weight. Again my wife uses the Xpert which she really likes. I tried the Fantom and really didn't like it because it didn't feel comfortable, in fact I thought that the Xpert felt a lot more comfortable than the Fantom even to me. That's the key thing, you must try before you buy, the riser must feel comfortable because if it doesn't you'll always be fighting it and compensating for it. If you want a 25" riser and don't want to spend a fortune then I'd take a look at the Sebastian Flute Premium which again is about ?30 more than the Fantom in the UK. I use the Sebastian Flute Forged Plus which is a bit more expensive still but just felt so right to me that I had to buy it.

HTH
 

mk1

It's an X
Supporter
Thanks for your reply

I will have a 350euro budget for all the equipment.

The thing is that I really just have started and I feel that will spend money in equipment that in a month or two can become unusable either because e feel I can move up in pounds ( I'm pulling 30# at the moment) or because I find it doesn't feels particulary good (since I don't have the experince to determine exactly what I want).

I'm not even sure if I prefer an olympic recurve or a field recurve (wood made take down).

It seems more wise to me to spend 100euros now and invest on a better bow later ( and maybe then I feel confidence in spendind more than the actual 350 budget, because I know what i want).

So I've this doubt: how far can I develop my tecnique with a beginner's bow ( like a Samick Polaris Take-down or a Internature Javelina for 80pounds ) ? What distance can you efectevely aim with this basic bows? Will they interfere with my progression?
Progression isn't just about going up the poundage and therefore distances. You can "progress" improve your technique using a stretchy band :)

If the Club is unable to lend you a bow for a few more months and you have to buy one then any of the basic beginner bows like the Polaris will do. There is plenty to learn to get consistency - that takes time and practice. We have people in the Club shooting better - more consistently - with one of these and quietly getting on with it than many of the others who have all the bells and whistles.
 

grimsby archer

New member
As so I asked the coach for some pointers in buying my fisrt recurve bow (he owns an archery shop).
Surely its not in his best interest to sell you duff equipment or give you poor advice.

A happy archer will continue to return for advice, equipment upgrades etc for years and will recommend the coach/shop to his friends.

An unhappy archer will complain to anyone and everyone, thereby negatively affecting the coach/shop reputation
 

Aqueminy

New member
As for the two risers you mention. I don't know if you are male or female, how tall you are or how old you are etc but I would certainly say that the Xpert is perhaps more suitable for ladies or youngsters due to its size and weight. Again my wife uses the Xpert which she really likes. I tried the Fantom and really didn't like it because it didn't feel comfortable, in fact I thought that the Xpert felt a lot more comfortable than the Fantom even to me. That's the key thing, you must try before you buy, the riser must feel comfortable because if it doesn't you'll always be fighting it and compensating for it. If you want a 25" riser and don't want to spend a fortune then I'd take a look at the Sebastian Flute Premium which again is about ?30 more than the Fantom in the UK. I use the Sebastian Flute Forged Plus which is a bit more expensive still but just felt so right to me that I had to buy it.

HTH
Thanks for the details. I'll have a look to those limbs and riser.

How would you compare them with the samick models I've described above?

Do you feel much diference between the bows you've bought and the beginners's bows you've used in the beginners course?

How far can one go with someting like a samick polaris?
 

Aqueminy

New member
Surely its not in his best interest to sell you duff equipment or give you poor advice.

A happy archer will continue to return for advice, equipment upgrades etc for years and will recommend the coach/shop to his friends.

An unhappy archer will complain to anyone and everyone, thereby negatively affecting the coach/shop reputation

Of course you're right.

I believe that he is a well intended person.

The thing is that in Portugal archery doesn't has the same amount of practioners that has in the UK and therefore very few archery shops.

I think that his shop doesn't haves much variety to choose from, at least comparing with some online shops I've come across, therefore limiting my chioce.
 
Thanks for the details. I'll have a look to those limbs and riser.

How would you compare them with the samick models I've described above?

Do you feel much diference between the bows you've bought and the beginners's bows you've used in the beginners course?

How far can one go with someting like a samick polaris?
The difference between the bows mentioned above & the bows I used on the Beginners course, the Polaris, is, in my opinion, huge. The Polaris bows are great to begin with but they simply are not of the same quality, as adjustable, as powerful etc etc as a 'real' bow. I used a Polaris for about 6 weeks after completing my beginners course because the coaches said to not rush out and buy a bow. During this time I concentrated on my technique but because the bow wasn't tailored for me, these were just bows my club had that had a generic set-up, getting any kind of consistency was near impossible. After I bought my bow literally from day 1 I noticed a significant improvement in my technique, results & consistency. By comparison the Polaris bow felt like a toy compared to my bow. Obviously though if you buy your own Polaris bow you can tune it to you which will be far better than what I had but all of the coaches at my club said that I would not improve as much or as quickly if I bought or continued to use a Polaris as I would if I bought the type of bow that I did. As for Samick, I did try a pair of Samick limbs but didn't like them. That said I know a few beginners who use them and like them a lot so it's largely personal taste.

Personally I wouldn't worry to much over what limbs you buy in terms of brand & materials but would advise that you buy the best riser you can afford without breaking your budget.

HTH
 

Aqueminy

New member
The difference between the bows mentioned above & the bows I used on the Beginners course, the Polaris, is, in my opinion, huge. The Polaris bows are great to begin with but they simply are not of the same quality, as adjustable, as powerful etc etc as a 'real' bow. I used a Polaris for about 6 weeks after completing my beginners course because the coaches said to not rush out and buy a bow. During this time I concentrated on my technique but because the bow wasn't tailored for me, these were just bows my club had that had a generic set-up, getting any kind of consistency was near impossible. After I bought my bow literally from day 1 I noticed a significant improvement in my technique, results & consistency. By comparison the Polaris bow felt like a toy compared to my bow. Obviously though if you buy your own Polaris bow you can tune it to you which will be far better than what I had but all of the coaches at my club said that I would not improve as much or as quickly if I bought or continued to use a Polaris as I would if I bought the type of bow that I did. As for Samick, I did try a pair of Samick limbs but didn't like them. That said I know a few beginners who use them and like them a lot so it's largely personal taste.

Personally I wouldn't worry to much over what limbs you buy in terms of brand & materials but would advise that you buy the best riser you can afford without breaking your budget.

HTH

You mentioned something that I believe it's the main point: you said you used a polaris for 6 weeks plus the beginners course.

I've just completed 2 sessions ( 2 hours each) and I feel like I'm suposed to buy a bow ( beacuse the place I go it's not a school but a group of archery entusiast instead) when i don't have either the knowledge or the experience to choose one. I beleive it would take more time to develop a tecnique that would allow me to notice the difference in shooting between the polaris and an ilf olympic recurve.

On another hand It would be silly to spend 120 euros on a polaris and two months later find out that it is stopping me from learning and develop my tecnique.

What's your advice for this situation?


Thanks
 
You mentioned something that I believe it's the main point: you said you used a polaris for 6 weeks plus the beginners course.

I've just completed 2 sessions ( 2 hours each) and I feel like I'm suposed to buy a bow ( beacuse the place I go it's not a school but a group of archery entusiast instead) when i don't have either the knowledge or the experience to choose one. I beleive it would take more time to develop a tecnique that would allow me to notice the difference in shooting between the polaris and an ilf olympic recurve.

On another hand It would be silly to spend 120 euros on a polaris and two months later find out that it is stopping me from learning and develop my tecnique.

What's your advice for this situation?


Thanks
Hmm tricky. So who owns the bow(s) you are using at the moment? I honestly don't think anyone who knows anything about archery would expect someone to go out and buy a bow after just 4hrs. My advice would be to talk to whoever it is that owns the bow(s) and ask them if you can continue to use the bow at the very least until the end of the course, ideally longer. If for whatever reason that simply is not possible then my advice would still be to buy a riser and limbs and not a Polaris. However its highly likely that the limbs you are currently using are something like 20-22lb but when you buy your first bow you would often look at buying limbs that are anywhere from say 24-34lb simply because by the time you usually are ready to buy a bow you have developed the shoulder muscles enough to draw heavier weights. You unfortunately have not had this luxury. I would suggest then that you buy the cheapest set of limbs you can find of the weight you are currently using but still buy a riser. By doing this you will effectively have something like the Polaris bow in terms of ease of draw and use but you will be able to upgrade it more easily. I'd definitely suggest that whatever riser you get that you buy one that has ILF limb fitting so that you have a wider choice of limbs. Whatever limbs you buy you may well only use for a couple of months so just buy the cheapest you can find and think of them as a stepping stone before you get your first set of 'real limbs' which will last you longer (but which you will also replace just not as soon). Perhaps consider buying second hand limbs, just make sure that you examine them for cracks etc before buying and then buy a better set at a later date.
 

Aqueminy

New member
Hmm tricky. So who owns the bow(s) you are using at the moment? I honestly don't think anyone who knows anything about archery would expect someone to go out and buy a bow after just 4hrs. My advice would be to talk to whoever it is that owns the bow(s) and ask them if you can continue to use the bow at the very least until the end of the course, ideally longer. If for whatever reason that simply is not possible then my advice would still be to buy a riser and limbs and not a Polaris. However its highly likely that the limbs you are currently using are something like 20-22lb but when you buy your first bow you would often look at buying limbs that are anywhere from say 24-34lb simply because by the time you usually are ready to buy a bow you have developed the shoulder muscles enough to draw heavier weights. You unfortunately have not had this luxury. I would suggest then that you buy the cheapest set of limbs you can find of the weight you are currently using but still buy a riser. By doing this you will effectively have something like the Polaris bow in terms of ease of draw and use but you will be able to upgrade it more easily. I'd definitely suggest that whatever riser you get that you buy one that has ILF limb fitting so that you have a wider choice of limbs. Whatever limbs you buy you may well only use for a couple of months so just buy the cheapest you can find and think of them as a stepping stone before you get your first set of 'real limbs' which will last you longer (but which you will also replace just not as soon). Perhaps consider buying second hand limbs, just make sure that you examine them for cracks etc before buying and then buy a better set at a later date.
Yes it's trick... and that's why I ask for your advice :)

I'm currently using a begginer's bow ( SF Optimos) borowed from the club's boss and shop owner. This is not really a beginner's course, rather an introduction made to people o want to buy him a bow.

i've made my third session (2hours) this weekend and he told he thinks I'm ready to buy my own bow.

In Portugal archery is something that very few people practice, and therefore there is short option of shops and places to learn and practice shooting.

By the way: I'm a 28 old male shooting 30 lbs with a 68'' bow.

I
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If you buy the best you can afford straight away, and it shows up later to be unsuitable, that is a lot of money not well spent.
If you buy a beginners bow now, you can learn how to shoot and how to shoot better. A beginners bow will not prevent you from learning how to shoot well. While you are learning how to shoot well and how to shoot better, you also have time to learn other things about archery and about the equipment. You will have time to find out what is important; and then buy something suitable.
 

urbin

Member
We've bought a few of the Fantoms for our high school students (who rent equipment from us). Despite the price and the not-so-flash brand (I've never thought much of Cartel sights - rattly buggers), they are a surprisingly good riser, solid, with limb pocket adjustment (which is the first feature to disappear as you get cheaper) and all the usual bits & pieces you'd expect. I'd recommend them as a good intermediate-level riser.
 

Aqueminy

New member
Thank you all for your help.

I guess I would better buy a beginners bow for now until I know what I really want, and what fits my needs.
 
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