BEST method

JamesT

New member
Hi all,
Ive been reading a fair amount about Kisik Lee and the BEST method recently. I was just wondereing if anyone out there has embraced his method and, if so, did they have any problems learning it? Did they ask a coach for help or work through it themselves, and if so, was it because our club coaches are not familiar with his method?

Recent results seem to confirm the BEST method seems to be successful, but is that because it is employed by archers who spend the majority of their time practicing?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Many thanks
 

73miss

New member
I like it and have fully embraced it. Its the one method I have found that is fully (and I mean fully) thought through. Its not for everyone and does require you to either take it all or leave it alone. You cant just take the easy stuff and leave the hard bits.

Its all or nothing. Each step links to the step before and the one after. Its no use thinking that you by standing or breathing in the same way as BEST archers you are a BEST archer.

Having said that, a lot of archers use aspects of BEST and it works for them though. To get the max out of it you need it all. And it depends what your aspirations are. Club champion? - take a few bits of it. County champ? - take a few more bits. But if you want to be world class dont think that anything other than using it all will get you there.

Its not the sort of thing that you can (i believe) learn directly from either of the books or even the videos.
And its about practise. Lots and lots and lots of it.
And decreasing scores while you learn it
And the rest of your archery career to get anywhere near the mastery of it.

It not the be all and end all of shooting techniques but in my experience it works.

Andy
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I agree with Andy's post. I don't know as much about it as he does, so my comments need to be read with that in mind. Some of the aspects I have read about match how I think and make a lot of sense.I find some of the details very difficult to manage; finger positions on the draw hand for example. My view is that for archers who will have limited time for learning; and limited time for enjoying their efforts, could take a slightly more "relaxed" approach to their form.That, I feel would bring better results, as we would be more able to manage what we have taken on.
 

JamesT

New member
Many thanks Andy and Geoff.
I think Andy has cleared up a few points for me. In as much as that it is not the easiest of techniques but it may be possible to incorporate some aspects of it into a current techniques. I think Geoff also confirms this by recognising some common aspects.
The problem though is like Geoff says, its not so easy to learn from the books and internet sources - it really does need a coach to help. And therein lies the problem that i cant find a coach in my area that teaches this method.
I have been looking at body roatation and the technique of keeping the front shoulder low. I was taught to shrug the shoulders down prior to raising the bow and concentrate on just raising the hand. But i believe the BEST method reinforces the idea of ' pulling ' the shoulder down, which in my mind makes for a more positive association with the shoulder. I also find a slight rotation from the waist creates better stability and alignment. Neither technique comes naturally though and uses muscles Im not familiar with!
Thanks for your input Geoff and Andy.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
The bow shoulder is a vital part of the shooting platform. It adds stability and draw length consistency. I used to let my shoulder drop and then forget it. I now let it drop and and put some effort into making it keep its place. It produces a different feeling throughout the draw.When I get it right, it feels as if my bow arm is solid and much lower down, compared to the path of the drawing hand. With the bow shoulder relaxed down and no more, drawing the bow feels as if the two arms are on the same level.The difference in bow shoulder position between the two can only be 2-3mm at most; but the feeling is that the draw arm is working about 6inches higher.( I'm not sure if that makes a clear message for the reader)
I tried rotating my shoulders to get a line from one to the other and straight on to the bow arm. I think my body shape is so thin that I felt like a cardboard cut out of an archer. It caused the string to batter my draw arm from elbow to wrist. The arrows flew like confetti and the groups grew to cover half the target. Easing back a little from that sorted the problems.
 

EVC

New member
My perception is that the BEST method is presented in such a complicated way that it looks much more difficult than it must really be.

Anyway I do think that by incorporating at least some of its key elements one may improve their shot.

Cheers!

Elder.
 

73miss

New member
My perception is that the BEST method is presented in such a complicated way that it looks much more difficult than it must really be.
Thats a pretty fair summary to be honest. As with all things it can be broken down into smaller and smaller chunks.
Ascham had the 5 points of shooting as Stand, Nock, Draw, Aim and Loose. I dont think we do anything much different now.

What BEST does is tell you HOW to do these things. So we are all told to raise the bow arm and keep the shoulder low. But no one tells us how.
We get told to draw so that we end up with the weight "on yer back". But what does that feel like and how do we know we have done it?

BEST gives you a very detailed description of a way of achieving these things. It is designed to give you a shooting method that, once you have learned it, will give you the confidence to shoot exactly the same way every time. Even (and especially when) under pressure. You know that even when standing on the line with one arrow to go at an Olympic final that if you follow the sequence you will end up with a great shot. The whole shot sequence is a trust giver in times of panic.

What KSL actually says is that (in very simplistic terms) the "hold" stage is the point we need to get to. However you get there is fine. However BEST gets you there in the most efficient and easily repeatable manner.

Sure there are things(such as the bow hand thumb position and the draw side thumb/little finger placement) that seem to be adding unnecessary complication to the shot but these are there for a reason. So lets take the draw side thumb/little finger placement and hooking. You can do this exactly as the books etc describe but if the bow side hand/arm is not in the correct position before you raise your bow arm the draw side finger placement doesnt work as it should.

Seems odd that incorrect bow arm alignment before you raise the arm will not allow the draw side hand to work effectively right through the raise and all the way to load/anchor transfer. But thats the way this thing works. You can use the hooking thing on its own by all means. And you may even get a better release because of it. What you wont get is the most efficient and easily repeatable release.

Learning how the shot sequence is put together and what it should look and feel like is the easy bit. We did the whole thing in about half a day.
Learning how to shoot this method takes a great deal longer.
Learning how to teach it takes an awful lot longer than that. (Something I am still working on.)

Keep reading the books. Look at all of the shot sequence described. Read every word over and over again and there will still probably be bits that you will miss.

JamesT(and anyone else that thinks I am having a go) Before you read the next bit please note that I am not in any way shape or form implying that your shooting technique is wrong or incorrect.

What I am saying is this. If I were to assume you have decided to shoot BEST and have read all the books and watched all the videos I will hazard a guess that, despite having never seen you shoot and knowing nothing about you that your pre raise bow arm position is not as BEST needs it to be. Although you might think you have followed the book to the letter this start position is not implicitly stated and is often overlooked. It is in the book (both of them) its just not easy to see or find. Without this correct position you will struggle to get the arm raised in a manner that allows the shoulder to be in the correct position at the next stage. And it will affect your ability to get in or behind line. And this stops you using the correct muscles throughout the L/A/T and into the holding phase.

Once you have this start position correct everything else seems to flow. And if its not then everything else will seem like a struggle. Its not that the start position is the most crucial - its just an example to show how everything is linked together.

Sorry if this is confusing anyone. Its certainly starting to confuse me!!. Will go away now.

Andy
 

JamesT

New member
Andy, that great- seriously. You have hit the nail on the head, and confirmed what I was thinking. My weakness has always been getting a good solid bow arm and comfortable use of my back, and although it was adequate, a potsmouth score in the 540's was my ' limit ' - hence looking at other methods such as BEST. I have to admit that my bowarm raise is at best a facsimile of the correct form, but I am hoping with plenty of practice and effort I might even stumble across the right way :-0.
Like I said at the beginning, coaches in this area who are knowledgeable in this method are scarce !!
 

greysides

New member
I shoot barebow but I still use a lot of the KSL cycle. In fact I am progressively using more and more of it as I develop without intentionally having adopted it.

I particularly like this quote, from above, "The whole shot sequence is a trust giver in times of panic." Good shooting needs that trust/confidence.

A lot of the anatomical alignment described in the KSL cycle is backed up by the work done by Ray Axford and described in his book Archery Anatomy.

I also agree with Geoffs finding that there is a difference in feeling during the draw between whether the bow arm is kept down deliberately, or not.

7,3, miss, would you mind explaining about the drawing hand thumb/little finger as I've not heard anything about that before.
 
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Liz14

New member
Hi Andy,

Thanks for your post – the part about having your pre-raise bow arm position right really rings true and its encouraging to think that if I can just get this right, all my bow shoulder issues will improve :)

But for those of us who just don’t have access to a BEST coach, do you think there is no hope?

Like JamesT I am hoping that I will find the right way eventually and as you suggested, I keep finding new bits I have missed when I reread the KSL books.

Liz
 

73miss

New member
Hi Liz - there is always hope. And thanks for putting the link up.

Greysides. Page 36 on the link is what I am trying to explain. It doesnt have to be as extreme as shown. Try the bucket test as described.
Also try just letting your arm drop by your side loosely. Then try to pull your thumb and little finger in towards the palm of your hand. You should notice that the back of your hand/wrist bends outwards slightly which is what we are after.

For those who think that little finger position doesnt matter (after all - why would it - its not touching anything so how can it affect anything?) try this. Easier to do than to describe.

Hold both hands in front of your face and link your first three finger tips together. (Imagine your right hand is holding a bow string and your left fingers are the string.) Is that making any sense???

Now pull your hands in opposite directions as though you have the weight of a bow at full draw. With your fingers still linked together now move both little fingers around a bit. Feel and see how just moving the little finger affects the position and tension in the rest of the fingers. The fingers that hold the string.
Now can you see that when you are shooting the position if the little finger will affect the tension held by the other fingers? And different amounts of tension on each shot will give a different release.

So not only does the little finger and thumb allow us to set our draw hand in the most desirable position it also allows us to be more consistent with the tension held on the string.

If none of this makes sense in the way I have written it I am hoping that Geoff will be along soon to write it in a far easier to understand manner. Geoff helped me edit a few articles I wrote a couple of years ago and can always be relied upon to explain difficult concepts in a far more succinct manner than almost anyone I know.

Am going off to lie down in a darkened room now.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Heehee! I feel a little bit on the spot. I think the explanation is fine as it is. Perhaps I would add that linking the fingers is done with the draw hand in the usual position and the "string" hand is thumb down.
One of the phrases that always gets my attention is "everything just flows". There are a couple of archers where I shoot who say this almost every session."When I get it right, everything just flows."
I think it is a message that is very easy to understand when your shooting has reached that level. I feel it is open to misinterpretation before that. We have a few long bow archers and their shot cycle "just flows".It does look very simple; a child could copy it quite well.( long bow archers need not take offence at that, I am not saying it is bad; I am saying it looks simple and it flows)
It is a small step from that, to imagining a recurve archer's shot cycle will flow in the same way.Perhaps it will flow in a similar way eventually; but I think a lot of work has to be done, and done well, before that stage is reached.To my way of thinking it is like learning to play a whole tune so that you can get it right from beginning to end.When you get there, it all just flows; no mistakes.Until you get to that stage, there will be some bits that you get wrong frequently and they need special attention; usually by practising that small section separately till the problem is resolved.
In archery, running through the whole shot, when there is a fault in one section, upsets that flow so the tune isn't correct.Practising the bad bit separately can be impossible without going through the other parts, so many archers that I watch, are shooting the whole shot to try to get one part sorted. Often, the bad part isn't recognised, so success is not very likely. They are trying to get the shots to "flow" as that is a good thing... but they don't have the full understanding of what they should be doing to reach that level.It seems to me they they often feel it is a matter of taking less time, so the flow can me maintained. That sounds fine, until the sight moves nf there is a conflict of interests; keep the flow going, or get the aim back in place.
I am not having a go at the BEST method. I just felt that FLOW is something that needs a bit of care.It is mentioned as a good thing in all sorts of archery technique discussions and chats.We can imaging what that flow is like; but not always understand how to achieve it.It is more often mentioned than explained, I feel.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
The BEST method expects you to shoot in a certain way - you have to be fit to be able to get the most from it - this is where many fall down not being fit enough to repeat the process shot after shot.

This applies not just to Best but most techniques and fitness should be a pre curser
 

Murray

Well-known member
Ironman
American Shoot
AIUK Saviour
I do agree Whitehart. I see a lot (I mean the majority) of archers who are simply not fit or strong enough to control their shot sequence. I know none of my archery mates go to the gym for strength and conditioning, injury prevention or cardio work, simply because they don't take the sport that seriously - then it becomes a big issue when they go into a serious squad and are suddenly asked to go out of their comfort zone and into the gym.

The beauty of the gym work etc is that, of course, it has benefits for life, not just for archery.

Any shot process, whether it's called 'BEST' or something else is only as valuable as the work put into achieving it.

Anyway, we digress and go slightly off topic - but not too far, as the athletes people are talking about here do more than just work the method... Therein lies the secret :)
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I see the BEST method in engineering terms; the tolerances are tight. Other methods, if not deliberately planned as methods but just collections from different sources, have wider tolerances.In the real world of club archery, wider tolerances are more acceptable; possibly more appropriate.
One example of the sort of tolerances I am talking of, is the setting up of the clicker's position.Working to a clicker that has 1mm to go when the references are reached, is far harder to get to work than one set with 5mm overhang.Expecting precision in execution when the archer isn't capable of such, is a recipe for disappointment.
 

Murray

Well-known member
Ironman
American Shoot
AIUK Saviour
Geoff - for success, tolerances should be tight in ANY method. There's nothing in the 'BEST' method that is unique.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Murray, I totally agree with that.Perhaps my quick reading of the BEST method has given me the wrong impression; but it does seem to have some elements that do not come easy.By that ,I mean they seem quite unnatural; which for many will mean drifting back into old habits, unless there is careful supervision from a qualified coach.
My point is that how tight the tolerances are, should take into account the fitness level and skill level of the archer; at the time, and what the archer wants from their archery. Success for some will mean only one thing and they will need to become world champion to succeed in their terms.For many, success is about being able to enjoy their archery.Struggling with their bow is something they can usually overcome with some simple changes.They enjoyment resulting from that can be all they wanted.Better groups ,is a common desire. Better than what, though?If it involves "better than everyone" that can be very different from, " better than this rubbish" when rubbish means they can get three arrows in the gold and three in the grass.( or something similar)
 

greysides

New member
Thanks Liz and 7,3,miss- some reading for the Christmas period. Merry Christmas to you both, Geoff and any of the AIUK bods who read this.
 

Big.Dave

New member
The B.E.S.T method is the only way to shoot but beware without a coach who understands how it works it is easy to misinterpret what has been written about it and this becomes a path to injury and failure. So beware the Koreans grasp of English is a problem as is the editing of the books they have written. reading through the two books written by the big hitters in archery coaching I'm not a happy bunny because one could result in injury and one is very expensive and badly edited not just one mistake but repeatedly. This is the first time I have slammed both books but what they are getting at is the key to good shooting. in the west the books written on archery make a hash of explaining what good form is it is becoming clear the Koreans are having the same trouble. I have had a go my self and explaining for is very difficult.

What we need is someone very articulate with a sharp eye for detail and a solid understanding of the physic's, bio-mechanics, psychology and science involved to write a book on the subject.
 
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