first recurve riser - ali vs carbon

Andyt23

Member
Hi, I'm busy looking to get myself a target recurve setup, and I'm used to doing research online, reading reviews in magazines etc when I buy something new but boy, there's just zero archery info out there that I can find, beyond specs and simplistic unboxing videos etc. definitely a niche there to fill . . .

I'm currently looking at SF Forged+ vs Hoyt Horizon/Horizon Pro, guessing that between the two it would be a case case of comfort and feel (which I can do, lucky to have a shop nearby), they seem to be the respected risers at their price point (not sure the pro is worth the extra, maybe anodising is just pricey).

But I'm also wondering if its worth paying a bit more now and going up to a Winex or RCX-100 or at a push an Inno AL1.
Is the +?100 price jump worth it, or would I not really see a difference unless I go much higher (which I'm not going to do, around 300ish would be the max, but only if its worth it over SF/Hoyt).

The next obvious question then is about metal vs carbon - specifically would the carbon wear ok and last as long as the Winex, or be more susceptible to damage etc and be a pain to care for (speaking from early days experience of carbon in bicycle bits) ?

I know they'll probably feel quite different to shoot (so again, personal preference), but if I'm investing then I must consider wear and tear. I don't want to be seduced by a pretty carbon riser only to need another one in a year or two.

cheers
 

ThomVis

Active member
So you've not been shooting very long, consider this:
- It'll be a while before you see/feel the difference between different (makes of) risers
- You will use/bump/drop your bow, so it will have wear marks
- After a while you want to upgrade because of above
- Showing up at the line now with a ?3000 kit won't make you shoot any better
- You might worry more about damaging it than you would with a ?500 kit
 

Pete D

Member
It is a matter of what works for you, extra money spent on the equipment won't necessarily give you good scores. The best and probably the cheapest bit of equipment is some quality coaching lessons. Expect to pay ?100-?160. If your local archery store is any good they will let you try different setups and if they are brilliant they will strongly suggest what is best for you and not the highest profit for them.
By the way I shot SF ultimate carbon with ACC arrows and I can do in practice 575s regularly on a Portsmouth. Upgrading my kit to win win might buy a couple more points but I doubt it. Having some more coaching will make a difference though. Enjoying shooting no matter what you decide.
 

Tuck

New member
At the start of your archery journey, you are looking at the right end of the riser spectrum. ANY riser can take you to a high level, the equipment is better than most archers capability.
Go and see what works for you, the SF is a good riser, but check out the Mybo ones as they are a bit lighter and will react differently in the hand as they are cast magnesium.
I have both ally and carbon risers, I am a bit more careful with the carbon one, but that's just me being paranoid, and not wanting to chip the pretty paint job.
 

beppe2672

New member
Funily enough the hoyt horizon and the sf forged + were the 2 risers I short listed when I bought my first riser. You need to go to a shop and try both. The sf is a good bow with options for a full stabiliser set up including top and bottom rods, the limb adjustment system is better than on the horizon. But I found the grip quite small and it didn't feel right in my hand. The horizon only has 1 bushing for stabilisers, the limb adjustment is more fidiley, but it is lighter than the sf and you have a choice of grips, the blackout finish is pretty bullet proof too. It's all down to personal preference.
 

fbirder

Member
Funily enough the hoyt horizon and the sf forged + were the 2 risers I short listed when I bought my first riser. You need to go to a shop and try both.
I went to the shop for my first bow knowing I wanted the Horizon. But I thought I'd better try some of the others that they had in stock. When I tried the SF it just slipped into my hand as if it were made for it - so that's what I ended up getting.
 

adrianms

Member
I'm using the SF Premium riser (my whole setup is SF apart from string & arrows) & I've been shooting regular 550+ Portsmouth's for the last month indoors. I'm about to upgrade my Elite carbon long rod to V-bar as at both clubs I shoot at (the coaches)think I'll improve my scores more than going for a better riser.
The SF Forged+ should be a fine choice for a 1st bow IMHO (did my induction course last Oct/Nov & bought my bow Dec-so I'd rate myself as an "improver")
Don't go mad spending lots of cash on your 1st kit, as you improve you'll start upgrading & as product knowledge improves you'll make wiser choices based on ability & budget. For eg, my 1st limbs were Kaya K1's ?75, used for 7 months before going up 4lbs to SF Elite carbons @ ?150. I expect these limbs to last me a couple of years.
My original setup was ?400 all in-everything I needed & I've spent more than double that to date with upgrades & getting a set of outdoors long range arrows etc-but over a period of months with improving skill & wise choices (I think) I'm building a good setup.
 

Mad Wally

New member
Funily enough the hoyt horizon and the sf forged + were the 2 risers I short listed when I bought my first riser. You need to go to a shop and try both. The sf is a good bow with options for a full stabiliser set up including top and bottom rods, the limb adjustment system is better than on the horizon. But I found the grip quite small and it didn't feel right in my hand. The horizon only has 1 bushing for stabilisers, the limb adjustment is more fidiley, but it is lighter than the sf and you have a choice of grips, the blackout finish is pretty bullet proof too. It's all down to personal preference.
I fully agree. I started out with the SF forged + but it never felt really right. Upgraded to the GMX and eventually changed the grip to the high RX grip. Couldn't have been happier! Btw have really big hands, motorcycle glove size 4XL.
 

wingate_52

Active member
A carbon riser will wear worse than an anodised one, subjected to the same use/abuse. Padded case, foam interior? Get used to the nail varnish racks at your local chemist to repair chips. Fit of grip is important, but altering a grip with rubber, wood, epoxy puty, vetwrap can alter that. The limbs are so important, they have to move and different types feel and act differently. I shot a Winact for 8 years, a mark where the Spig arrow rest hit the riser on each shot, and wear marks in the pockets. I had 3 different grips and 4 sets of limbs. 4 sets of different arrows, 2 rests and 3 buttons. If the riser is right you will stick with it. Why are carbon risers so heavy?
 

Andyt23

Member
Thanks everybody - it seems regardless of price (within my ?150-?300 range that is) it's the balance and feel in my hand that should dictate my choice. I'm happy with that.

I'm lucky enough to live close to a shop, so I hope to be a pest and try and shoot them all if they have LH versions in stock.
it may be true that I won't notice subtle advantages being a novice, but I'm hoping one will just feel right.

and I really like the idea of spending some money on some coaching sessions, like you say, the best way to more points is to shoot better, not just pay more and keep shooting the same. Hadn't thought of that so I'll look into it

cheers
 

carl7

New member
I'm hoping one will just feel right.

and I really like the idea of spending some money on some coaching sessions, like you say, the best way to more points is to shoot better, not just pay more and keep shooting the same. Hadn't thought of that so I'll look into it

cheers
Andy sure some riser grips will feel better than others but, being a novice, it's a little hard to refine what feel actually works for you, it may not be the one that felt right at the time. Only experience will determine that.

The most important thing you have to realize is, it's not who has the most expensive gear that shoots the best but who has the best form, work on that, the equipment will come later. Form Andy without it, you'll never shoot high competing scores no matter how many years you shoot.

I'd say risers in the SF Forged class, it's a great riser, take a look at it. Unless you have money to burn, risers like the AL1 is foolishness at this point.

Just MO, I'd stay away from carbon for now.

It's a great sport Andy, grow into it slowly.
 

Andyt23

Member
Thanks Carl
So how do I choose - simply take a blind punt on a Forged+ as a sensibly priced, well regarded starter to get in the game, and take it from there ?
Is there not a right way to get the right starter riser for me? or do I make as informed a decision as I can at this point, between say a forged+ and a horizon, outgrow it and then make a better informed choice on an upgrade whenever that happens?

Hypothetically jumping ahead, how do you choose your next upgrade, is it just by shooting old and new together and seeing if you score better?
Is that how I choose my first one? the one I score best with in testing? No, that can't be it - with my inconsistent beginner's form that's random too!

How on earth do I make the right initial choice with no data... :duh:
 

carl7

New member
I'd say to first, learn what the proper grip is, this is vitally important, there are many articles on the proper recurve grip ask here on AIUK. Then, go out and see what grip fits that hand grip. There is a certain amount that you have to conform to in grips, none will be "perfect" don't expect a grip to fit you 100% perfectly.

Addition: I should have added, in other words, when you to out to try out riser grips, you have to determine what grip fits you when your using the proper recurve grip.

That's the point in this post Andy, by beginning with good but moderately priced equipment and working with it for a good while, that will give you the best idea what upgrade riser you will want. For now forget about upgrading, that will come way down the line. By then you'll probably have a completely different idea what you would like.

Again above all remember to perfect your FORM, here, money spent on proper coaching is invaluable.
 

Andyt23

Member
Addition: I should have added, in other words, when you to out to try out riser grips, you have to determine what grip fits you when your using the proper recurve grip.

That's the point in this post Andy, by beginning with good but moderately priced equipment and working with it for a good while, that will give you the best idea what upgrade riser you will want. For now forget about upgrading, that will come way down the line. By then you'll probably have a completely different idea what you would like.

Again above all remember to perfect your FORM, here, money spent on proper coaching is invaluable.
Gotcha. that makes total sense.
Thanks for perservering with me Carl (and everyone else). As ever great info and advice on this site
 

carl7

New member
Gotcha. that makes total sense.
Thanks for perservering with me Carl (and everyone else). As ever great info and advice on this site
Hi Andy, yes, many times, if you grip the handle just any old way, it may feel comfortable, but may not be so with the proper grip. Anyway, just start out with decent equipment that you can use and learn from it. It'll tell you what you want in the next riser down the line. Learning properly (form) from the start will allow you to make good progress all your archery career. Something learned wrong is very frustrating (besides bad scores) because you have to unlearn and that may take some doing and lost time.

Need to clarify. Earlier post I said "to get a AL1 would be foolishness". I didn't mean it like it sounded. I should have said for me, it'd be foolishness because I have a peculiar quirk in that I would much rather come out with modest gear and shoot well, than come out with Olympic caliber equipment and shoot mediocre.

It stems back when I first started, saw a guy on the field that had full blown top of the line kit, Hoyt Ion, F7's, Doinker, Shibuya, X10's with tungsten points, etc. Watched him shoot and at 70m the shots were all over the bail with 3 or 4 missing completely. First thought was "how embarrassing" haha.

Good luck, good shooting! enjoy.
 

Andyt23

Member
I would much rather come out with modest gear and shoot well, than come out with Olympic caliber equipment and shoot mediocre.
I don't think that's peculiar at all mate - the saying "all the gear, no idea" doesn't exist for nothing...
I'm right with you on that one, and coming to a sport where I haven't a clue how to budget, I'm grateful for the guidance.
 

carl7

New member
Hi Andy, one thing I should mention, you were thinking of the SF Forged or Hoyt Horizon. I have both, they are fine risers but there's a problem on which brand limbs you use with them. If you put SF limbs on the Horizon, it will only adjust to the upper weight range. Say you got 30# SF limbs, on the Horizon it may only adjust from perhaps 31# to perhaps 34#. So if you wanted the full weight range, (about 27-33#) you have to get Hoyt limbs with the Hoyt riser.

Of course SF limbs with a SF riser is fine. Something to do with the riser geometry.

Carl
 

Aleatorian

Member
Hi Andy, one thing I should mention, you were thinking of the SF Forged or Hoyt Horizon. I have both, they are fine risers but there's a problem on which brand limbs you use with them. If you put SF limbs on the Horizon, it will only adjust to the upper weight range. Say you got 30# SF limbs, on the Horizon it may only adjust from perhaps 31# to perhaps 34#. So if you wanted the full weight range, (about 27-33#) you have to get Hoyt limbs with the Hoyt riser.

Of course SF limbs with a SF riser is fine. Something to do with the riser geometry.

Carl
Nothing to do with geometry. if you stuck hoyt limbs on another bow you'd get get the upper and lower adjustment, this is due to hoyt weighing their limbs at the midpoint rather than bolts backed out (where SF/W&W measure from)

So :

Hoyt Limbs = +/- 5%
Most other manufacturers = +10%
 

jantar77

Supporter
Supporter
Hypothetically jumping ahead, how do you choose your next upgrade, is it just by shooting old and new together and seeing if you score better?
Is that how I choose my first one? the one I score best with in testing? No, that can't be it - with my inconsistent beginner's form that's random too!
I would say many of us "serious" archers make a choise based on how gorgeous it looks. :mischievo I would say riser is not the first thing you'll be upgrading. Limbs, arrows, gadgets like dampers and bits of stabilisers, arrow rests and buttons will be much more common to be replaced.

I personly would now make my first choice based on how easy is to setup/adjust the bow for mid-ranged risers and not spending too much money unless you think you will improve rapidly in a short time. With Hoyt you get a fine choice of grips but SF Forged+ has better adjustment and come with decent magnetic rest and button as an extra. But you'll not be disapointed with any of them.

As for carbon vs. aluminium, carbon risers absorb vibrations more thus feel more dead in the hand. I don't consider it as an advantage for inexperienced archer because you get less feedback on your bad shots/good shots.
 

jantar77

Supporter
Supporter
Why are carbon risers so heavy?
I think this has something to do with to keep the structural toughness especially when combined with metal for some parts like limb pockets. There is light carbon riser (Fiberbow) but it seems to have some repeated issues with material breaking in limb pockets as it is sheer carbon instead of metal like in W&W for instance.

Why anyway would you like to have them lighter? The weight around 3 pounds seems to be very reasonable in terms of stability vs. stamina to hold it.
 
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