plunger button holes/arrow length

Timid Toad

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I've just got a new riser (well new to me), and it has two holes where the button could go. I'm only used to one, having just put my beloved Alpha-Ex back in it's box. The riser came with a spigarelli zero tolerance rest, which I have hitched up on the nearest hole to me, as my arrows are the right length for the button in the furthest hole, ie just above the throat of the grip.

Now, it has occurred to me that if I use the button in the nearest hole, the rest will be much more firmly fixed to the bow in the other hole(being a puny girlie I have trouble getting it on tight enough so it can move a little if the button isn't in, I have to check it when I put my bow up, as this affects the height the arrows sit at next to the button), and I can get some new, shorter, therefore thinner and lighter arrows for outdoors.

But, will this be illegal for GNAS/FITA rules target archery, and will it mess up the feel of the bow because I am used to the button being at the throat of the grip? I went to the Western Region Fita at Craigie last weekend (had a lovely time, thanks to everyone at Ayr Club, apart from someone knocking my kit over and bending my centralizer thread - ?9.70 for a new one) and tried to see if anyone else did this, and couldn't spot anyone doing it this way round. GNAS rules on the website are not very helpful. I want to get some Cartel Triples, they'll be around 3cm shorter, but obviously don't want to spend the money if I can't use them!

Thanks in advance, I always appreciate your help,
Cherry
 

geoffretired

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This is only a guess, so if I'm wrong,don't shoot me till I've had time to put on the blindfold. Perhaps the hole furthest away from you when you shoot, is for fitting an arrow rest rather than a button.
 

Ffish

Well-known member
I've just gone through this very excercise, only a few days ago! Having gone from a Hoyt (white plastic) rest to a Spig ZT rest and button, I can say that the rest should be attached to the riser through the FURTHEST hole away from you, as you hold the bow, and the button goes in the hole nearest to you.
That way, the button lines up perfectly with the rest, and the arrow sits against the small "kink" at the end of the rest arm.
You're aware that the width setting of the rest is adjustable, with the little grub screw on the hinge?
 

Timid Toad

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Yes, I really like this rest, and had no problems adjusting it in all dimensions to work with the button in the furthest away hole - as this meant I could use the same length arrows as I'd had on the Yammy, using an ex flip rest. I'll try playing - more tuning:(
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Putting the button in the forward hole will, IIRC, cause the arrow to react as if it was a weaker spine. In other words, it's a good way to make long, stiff arrows fly well.

In practice, nearly everyone uses the rear button hole.
 

Tarkwin

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I could be reading your post incorrectly...but it sounds like you want your rest to be moveable.

I have a ZT on my Win & Win riser, the rest is securely mounted using the furthest bolt hole from the grip. To do this I partially installed the mounting bolt and then added the button to ensure there was enough clearance to install it and then fully tightened the mounting bolt. If you cannot tighten your rest mounting bolt enough to hold the rest firmly in place, use a washer between the rest and the head of the bolt - there was one supplied with mine. The rest is permanently attached and shouldn't move.

To adjust the rest for your arrows, you need to loosen the grub screws (small threaded items without a head but with a hex cut into the top for adjustment with an allen key.

There are two types of collar, one which determines how far out from the button/riser the rest sits, and (on mine) two collars to adjust the rest up and down for differing arrow diameters.

The collar to adjust travel has two screws on it, one which locks the rest so that it doesn't move and the second (which does have a head) which determines how far the rest sticks out. Normally when viewing from above, you should not be able to see much of the rest sticking out from underneath your arrow - only a few mm. Don't be tempted to bend the rest to hold your arrow on - this will most likely issues if the tail of the arrow kicks up when the rest flips in. As far as adjusting the height of the rest, the button should contact the arrow shaft at it's midpoint.

T.
 

Timid Toad

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Thanks for all that...
I do want my rest to be permanently fixed, its just that for various reasons, including a mashed cartilage in my wrist, I can't tighten it up enough, thats all. From an engineering point of view, it seems far more stable and reliable the other way round, so I'm going to give it a try. It might make my current arrows unshootable, as they are spot on tuned (as far as I'm capable of getting them there, anyway!) at the longer length, slap in the centre of my button's range, but if I'm looking to get shorter, thinner, lighter arrows I can fix that then. If it feels yucky, set so far back, I'll go back to the old position and stick some double sided tape under the rest.
So long as a judge doesn't look at my kit at the beginning of a shoot one day and make me look any more of a prat than I already do and ask me to put my button back into the other hole I can work round it.

Another thing has occurred to me. If I draw 27.5" on a 34lb@28" bow, and I move my button back and draw 26.5", but the same actual draw weight, ie weight on the fingers, how do I chose arrows? If I'm putting the same energy inito the bow, but with a shorter arrow, do I chose the same as someone who draws 26.5" in the old (furthest away) button hole, or go stiffer? Its so darn complicated. Where's that bend stick and bit of twine gone?:faint:
 

Tarkwin

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Timid Toad said:
Thanks for all that...
I do want my rest to be permanently fixed, its just that for various reasons, including a mashed cartilage in my wrist, I can't tighten it up enough, thats all. From an engineering point of view, it seems far more stable and reliable the other way round, so I'm going to give it a try. It might make my current arrows unshootable, as they are spot on tuned (as far as I'm capable of getting them there, anyway!) at the longer length, slap in the centre of my button's range, but if I'm looking to get shorter, thinner, lighter arrows I can fix that then. If it feels yucky, set so far back, I'll go back to the old position and stick some double sided tape under the rest.
So long as a judge doesn't look at my kit at the beginning of a shoot one day and make me look any more of a prat than I already do and ask me to put my button back into the other hole I can work round it.

Another thing has occurred to me. If I draw 27.5" on a 34lb@28" bow, and I move my button back and draw 26.5", but the same actual draw weight, ie weight on the fingers, how do I chose arrows? If I'm putting the same energy inito the bow, but with a shorter arrow, do I chose the same as someone who draws 26.5" in the old (furthest away) button hole, or go stiffer? Its so darn complicated. Where's that bend stick and bit of twine gone?:faint:
A wiser man than I (let's face it...who isn't) posted recently that the spine of the arrow is dependant upon shaft length...so the fact that you are drawing to a different reference point ( the button beoing mounted about an inch further back) shouldn't matter. If you trim the arrows so that there is less forward of the button, this will affect the spine.

see post #10 in this thread

http://www.archery-interchange.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2976

(that's what's called passing the buck) :)

T.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Timid Toad said:
So long as a judge doesn't look at my kit at the beginning of a shoot one day and make me look any more of a prat than I already do and ask me to put my button back into the other hole I can work round it.
There is absolutely no reason for a judge to do this, simply because it doesn't contravene any rules to use the forward hole for the button.
 

Kae

The American
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To have the choice to put the button in the other hole is why it is there in the first place. It is not meant to be a place to secure the arrow rest (but it does work really well lol).

Rule of thumb: try it, if it works, keep it. If it doesn't, eat some cake :cake: lol.
I'm learning what motivates people of this board, :cake: :pie: :yummy:
 

MTB_Rider

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the hole furthest is for a rest so you use the hole closest to you for the button. dont know why but it seems like the thing to do
 

Dave

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Kae said:
To have the choice to put the button in the other hole is why it is there in the first place.
And there's me thinking Hoyt were giving me somewhere to put my ciggie while shooting :rottentom
 

Timid Toad

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Tried tuning with the button in the nearest-to-me hole, and they were so soft it was a waste of time, so for the time being I've put the button back into the furthest hole and am trying to figure out what size of Cartel Triples I'll need at an inch shorter draw length, for next month, once I've been paid! Then I'll get three and see...and when I've got a full working set I'll try cutting down the ACCs.
The threads on Triples elsewhere on AIUK are proving interesting and useful too.
As you can tell. I really miss the days whereyou took your coach to Severns Archery, he told you what to get, set it up and all you had to do was shoot it right! (and pay for it). at least I'm not as bad as my larger half, who has just discovered he has been shooting his Nishizawa with the cone shaped limb limb weight adjustment washers up side down, since he bought it new, in 1991! Mind you it was sold to him, by Severns, that way, with no manual!

Thanks for the help guys.
Cherry
 

wingate_52

Active member
I have mine set up as Tarkwin has described it. I also interchange button and arrow rest for indoors/outdoors. 30 secs on changeover
 
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