Sights & Scope Compound conundrum - cannot get a sight picture

Corax67

Well-known member
Hi guys - I have a taxing tale from this morning.


I am shooting a borrowed 2006 Hoyt ProTec and doing nicely, managing 340 Frostbite scores at the moment so quite pleased.

A 2008 Hoyt UltraTec (bare bow) has come up for sale at an amazingly good price so our club technician has kindly fitted some of his spare kit to it for me to try before buying and brought it along this morning.

The two bows are pretty much identical aside from minor styling details on the risers so once we raised the peep on the 2008 we assumed I would be off and running.

BUT NO ! ! !

Had ad already shot most of a Frostbite round on the 2006 when the 2008 came over to test - as soon as I drew up there was an immediate problem. My sight picture was totally wrong. The peep and string were to the right of the riser instead of in a neat line on the left running through the scope and rest as per the 2006.

The 2006 has a Speciality Pro peep fitted but the 2008 has a peep attached by tubing to a stop on one of the bow string to pull it straight. When I removed the tubing the sight picture then came back to the LHS of the riser - not perfect but much better.

Eventually we raised the peep and managed to get it to face forward on its own volition but then I found that I couldn't see through the peep as the tunnel was now pointing down at an angle at full draw.

At this point I gave up for the day and retired to the rugby club bar.


Any ideas what is causing all this mucking about when the two bows should work exactly the same and what do we do to sort it out please ??



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
The string to the right of the riser sounds like a shorter draw on that bow, not allowing the draw elbow to travel round into line.
The tunnel pointing down could be the peep is turned by 180 degrees or is in the string facing the wrong way.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Hi Geoff - draw length is exactly the same on both bows, it's s cam & 1/2 system with both bows set to hole 'C' on their modules and draw length checked with a marked arrow just in case.

As for the peep sight it is one like this : IMG_3232.jpg so I do not see how it can possibly have been fitted incorrectly since there is only one way it will work.

Still stumped :(



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Right, I see what you mean.
Some peeps come in two varieties to match with short ATA bows or long ATA; as the string angles vary so does the peep alignment. Perhaps the tubing was also pulling the peep upwards so it allowed the tunnel to be nearer level.
If removing the tubing allowed the string picture to return to normal almost, that suggests the tubing may be causing the mis alignment. But I find that a bit strange unless the tubing is very short and the bow has a very low holding weight.
Was the bow being shot by the owner just before you tried it, or had the bow been out of use for some time? I am wondering if something is wrong with it.
If I torque my bow at full draw, I can just about get the limb tips off line enough to get the string to the outside of the riser. If I cant the bow a little I can get the string outside easily. If I tilt my head away from the string, I can see the peep to the right. Perhaps the peep was distracting you and your head automatically tilted away to let you see past it.
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
I'd have said different draw lengths too - just because it's on the same module setting doesn't mean it's the same. I've seen shops put the wrong length cables on bows because they didn't have the right set for example. Try setting it for a little bit longer and see if it makes any difference.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
The bow had a complete set of new cables fitted fairly recently and was shot 2 or 3 times afterwards - the expensive bits of kit (sight, scope, launcher) were then removed and the bow put up for sale through the club but the peep left in place.

With the tubing attached to the peep the only way I could obtain peep/scope alignment was to draw in such a way that my hand & release were against my Adam's apple underneath my chin.

Club consensus is that as I am Welsh I appear to be built differently to all other people in the world and its me not the bow - as I shoot the ProTec without issue I find that unlikely.

I will double check the draw length sometime his weekly that is the most likely cause.




Karl
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Another thought occurred to me - what is the difference in axle to axle between the two bows.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
You can't say for definite that the drawlength of the bows are the same until you have checked the hoty tune charts. You need to find out what limbs & cam you have fitted to the bows, and reference that to the correct tune chart to get your correct drawlength
 

Corax67

Well-known member
You can't say for definite that the drawlength of the bows are the same until you have checked the hoty tune charts. You need to find out what limbs & cam you have fitted to the bows, and reference that to the correct tune chart to get your correct drawlength

Hi Jerry - the limbs are identical on both bows, sets of XT2000 marked at 50-60#. As for cams I assume they too are identical, I looked up the Hoyt PDF manuals & blurb on both bows but none mention a change in cam between the two models being produced. Will try to confirm for certain tomorrow.

Apparently my draw length is about 1.5" longer than the seller so the peep might be the wrong angle version for me. It could be a 37 degree and I might need a 45 degree or the other way around ??



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Karl, You say the draw length was checked with a marked arrow. That might be ok if the two draw lengths are measured to the throat of the grip from the string at the nocking point. If you measured to somewhere like the back of the riser, there could still be differences in draw length between your bow hand and the string at full draw.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Hi Jerry - the limbs are identical on both bows, sets of XT2000 marked at 50-60#. As for cams I assume they too are identical, I looked up the Hoyt PDF manuals & blurb on both bows but none mention a change in cam between the two models being produced. Will try to confirm for certain tomorrow.

Apparently my draw length is about 1.5" longer than the seller so the peep might be the wrong angle version for me. It could be a 37 degree and I might need a 45 degree or the other way around ??


Karl
A note of caution there is no tune chart for a 2008 ultra tech only a 2006 so you may have a non standard bow .Or a 2006 model sold in 2008. If you look at the tune charts (Not the manuals) you will note there is some difference in the cam number relating to drawlength between the two.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I think there must be two separate issues here at least. First the peep angle. I would ignore that for now as it is easy to get a peep that doesn't align properly or it just might be associated with the string alignment. Either way I may even take the peep out or slide it out of the way.
The string alignment to the riser is something else. As Geoff suggested it sounds like head alignment or bow tilt. Can you get the tip of your nose on the string at full draw? This should give you reasonably repetitive string alignment with the scope. As the string should be directly in front of your eye at this point I find it difficult to see how the string could be to the right of the riser; very odd. I even tried tilting my head but it was very uncomfortable just trying to get the string to cross in front of the riser. I dropped the draw length by an inch and it made bugger-all difference.
Have you just held each bow up side-by-side in front of you to compare them? but it just doesn't sound like the bows if they are so closely matched but it does sound like the string is not in front of your eye. :scratchch
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Can you get the tip of your nose on the string at full draw? This should give you reasonably repetitive string alignment with the scope. As the string should be directly in front of your eye at this point I find it difficult to see how the string could be to the right of the riser; very odd. I even tried tilting my head but it was very uncomfortable just trying to get the string to cross in front of the riser. I dropped the draw length by an inch and it made bugger-all difference.
No I can't - but I can't get the tip of my nose onto the ProTec either !

All I do is draw, hit the back wall, my knuckles rest against the corner of my jaw bone, fractionally adjust front arm and bang. On the 'new' bow I do the same first 3 steps but the strong comes up in the wrong place ....... Grrrrrrrr

Have you just held each bow up side-by-side in front of you to compare them? but it just doesn't sound like the bows if they are so closely matched but it does sound like the string is not in front of your eye. :scratchch
I had them sat side by side on our target trolley comparing them and could see no obvious differences.



I will get a photo tomorrow of my current draw and we can pick bits out of that maybe to explore further a this compound lark is a darned site more frustrating than longbow :)




Karl
 

Corax67

Well-known member
A note of caution there is no tune chart for a 2008 ultra tech only a 2006 so you may have a non standard bow .Or a 2006 model sold in 2008. If you look at the tune charts (Not the manuals) you will note there is some difference in the cam number relating to drawlength between the two.

Oh joy - time to hunt out tune charts then - thanks Jerry



Karl
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Karl, You say the draw length was checked with a marked arrow. That might be ok if the two draw lengths are measured to the throat of the grip from the string at the nocking point. If you measured to somewhere like the back of the riser, there could still be differences in draw length between your bow hand and the string at full draw.
Didn't think of that Geoff - as the two bows have different hardware fitted then there is a chance I am not comparing like with like.



Karl
 

Corax67

Well-known member
I can most definitely hit things - shooting 340 Frostbite and 1st class Long Nationals week after week. I am sure it is something obvious staring us in the face with the new bow but we have yet to pick up on it.




Karl
 

vinniebleakley

New member
What's the cam spacing like, is one spaced further one way than the other?
Also the cable guard rod, are they the same shape and set at same angle? Even a different depth cable slide

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 
Top