Compound Help Needed

SLOWHAND

New member
Come on you expert compound shots, I need some advice! I've been shooting recurve for the past few years and about three weeks ago I bought a Bowtech Tribute. I love shooting it (my recurve practice is suffering) and I am currently shooting around 565 for a Portsmouth with it. As a recurve archer I thought compound would be a piece of cake what with all the extra benefits you get ( release aid, peep sight, scope, let off etc) but how wrong I was. I actually find it a lot more difficult both mentally and physically, for one thing it's alot heavier and keeping it pointed at the target needs a lot more effort. Biggest problem is holding the pin in the centre of the gold, I can do this quite easily with the recurve but with the compound the pin keeps wondering around. I try to keep relaxed and not grip the bow too tight, so do you have any tips for holding on the target.

The other main problem is the mental and physical aspect of getting a good release. I shot target rifle for many years and so I'm shooting with a wrist/finger release, it just seems far more natural for me than using a thumb release. I know from my rifle shooting days that I should be squeezing the trigger so the shot should come as a 'surprise' but I find this hard to do and I end up 'pulling' the trigger.

The trib is 50-60Lb draw weight and is set for about 50lb at the moment. I'm using 1916 platinums shaft length 28." and Ace 520's shaft length 28.75" with 100 grn piles. Are these arrows suitable, I'm planning on upping the DW to 57Lb or so before the outdoor season, would the Aces work? Hoping to get some better indoor arrows for Christmas, what do you suggest?

I'm shooting a .5 scope with a medium sized peep (started with a large peep but found I had to conciously 'centre' the pin in the middle). What are the pros and cons of different scopes and peeps.

I've done a paper test and am getting a near bullit hole but the pin is not directly above the arrow but out from the bow by about 3mm, should I be worried about this? Not done a walk back yet but will do when I can.

Any advice from you top compounders will be greatly appreciated.
 

greydog

New member
I won't claim to be an expert, but with any new bow you have to give yourself a little time to get a feel for it :cheerful:

As you've said, compounds tend to be a bit heavier, and until you get comfortable with the weight, you may not feel as steady on the dot as you would like........that said, don't expect to be able to put it on the gold and hold dead still while you execute the release, you will probably find it's better to let the dot float in the gold until you get a small window of calm, at which point squeeze or pull your trigger.

Don't worry about your sight not lining up directly over the arrow, you've now entered the wonderfull world of cable guard torque....:melodrama But it will be the same for each shot. I never had much faith in paper tests, but it sounds like your bow is set up fine.

For indoors, go with aluminiums, they are cheap and you can see if they have taken a beating, carbons can be decepetive and they wear too quickley at close range in straw bosses.

As for aiming, you still want to be pulling onto the wall, don't try and sit in the valley (not that there is much of one on the binaries) this will keep you solid and stop you creeping forward on the shot, hopefully steadying your aim a little.
Blank bossing is a good way to get a feel for how the bow reacts after the shot, but also usefull for getting used to your release aid........not much help with aiming though............I hope some of that was helpfull :cheerful:
 
P

pyroarch57

Guest
If you`re shooting a 565 Portsmouth ( inner ring for 10 don`t forget) after only 3 weeks on compound i would say you`re doing pretty damn good!

As for the arrows the Platinums and the Ace`s are both too weak, especially so if you`re going to up the poundage to 57.

The .5 scope is just right, and the hole in your peep needs to be just big enough to allow a little gap around the outside of the scope to aid alignment.

And for holding steady on the gold--- practice, practise perfect practice! :cheerful:
 

Fugue

Member
Here are a few things I have found useful:

Keep the balance of pressures pushing the bow forward and pulling back against the wall as similar as possible and also smooth pressure, not too aggresive.

The force you put in to pulling against a wall on a compound WILL have a direct impact on your aiming. The limbs cannot bend any further, so all you can do is pull your front arm around by pulling harder and harder. Pushing too hard will have a similar affect.

If you switch to back tension release this advice changes, however the general concept is correct. (If you do go to back tension ask around, you will get plenty of advice).

If you move to a hand held release you should also try to keep your drawing hand relaxed on the shot, as tension in the drawing hand feeds back through the bow and affects aiming.

Be more concious of your breathing, you will probably be at full draw for longer, your muscles will need more oxygen. (This will become subconcious with time).

And lots of practice, you are basically learning a new sport. Similar to what you have done before, but with significant differences.

Compound archery is more mental, I am anyway :cheerful:
 

Sling-it

New member
The discussion of push / pull has been covered. What is not mentioned, and is imparative to good shooting, is relaxation. I can't express this enough either. The more you relax, the better you will find your shooting. NEVER try to hold the dot on the X, but concentrate on the X like burning a hole in it with your eyes. Look past the dot, and trust your eyes to center the shot for you. Let the dot float. If you don't believe it to work, just take your lense out and try aiming through just the scope housing......you'll be surprised at your accuracy.

The release should be a surprise every shot. If it is not, you need to work on that. Also, draw length is more critical on a compound. You'll find that 1/4" will make a world of difference in your ability to hold steady, or "relax" steady as I like to put it.

It does take work, and with the competition here in the US, the work is endless. Keep at it, and have fun. You'll make discoveries along the way. Here's one to play with......you may notice any tension in your bow hand will affect the rest of the bow arm. Play with that for a bit.

Good luck
 

Robin Astra

New member
I don't know if it helps, but I prefer to shoot with an open circle decal on my scope rather than a dot. I find that I can relax more and concentrate on aiming if I'm not covering up the thing I'm trying to aim at! Apparently the brain is good at centering concentric circles.
This year I changed to a back tension release aid (Carter Solution 2.5). I find it a more natural action and helps to keep the pressure on the back wall than with a thumb activated type release. Release aids are a very personal thing and there is no universal answer. Do try borrowing different releases before buying, they can be a costly mistake if you don't get on with them.
With 565 for a Portsmouth, you haven't got much to worry about! Just enjoy the 'dark side'!

Robin
 

Quadratus

New member
It is well worth trying a True Spot scope. They have a small (1/8" or 3/16") lens in the middle of plain glass and no dots, circles, pins or anything. They don't suit everyone, but I find my x6 3/16" great indoors and out. It takes away all the anxiety about centering things and aligning things - if I can see it, I'm aiming at it!

By the way, you've already made the most important discovery about shooting compound - once you're past the very early stages its almost entirely a mental game.

Hope this helps.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
=slowhandBiggest problem is holding the pin in the centre of the gold, I can do this quite easily with the recurve but with the compound the pin keeps wondering around. I try to keep relaxed and not grip the bow too tight, so do you have any tips for holding on the target.

The other main problem is the mental and physical aspect of getting a good release. I shot target rifle for many years and so I'm shooting with a wrist/finger release, it just seems far more natural for me than using a thumb release. I know from my rifle shooting days that I should be squeezing the trigger so the shot should come as a 'surprise' but I find this hard to do and I end up 'pulling' the trigger.
The change from recurve to compound has gone well with 565 Portsmouth.
The differences are well described in your post.With the bow being heavier in the hand, while the holding weight is far less means different muscles play a greater/lesser part in the shot stability. There seems to be a lot more weight to hold up off the ground. Getting used to those differences takes practice;good practice, not just shooting with the new bow.I would stand close to the boss and aim easily with a large aperture. Just try different amounts of tension from the draw elbow and discover which gives good stability.The bow shoulder is under far less strain at full draw but that needs to be "used" not wasted.Make sure the bow shoulder is well set and the alignment, too.It is easy to get a little "soft" with the bow shoulder when using compounds.
Using the release aid properly(if there is such a thing) is not the same as triggering a rifle.Much of the bow's steadiness, or lack of it, comes from the drawing elbow. If the elbow is adding tension by building up pressure at full draw, that can cause shakes which will reach all the way to the sight.At full draw, imagine your drawing elbow is resting against the "wall" not trying to push the wall over.While the elbow rests against the bow's wall, you have to add pressure to the trigger, slowly and PATIENTLY. It feels like you are leaning against the trigger with the finger and it slowly gives up the will to resist. You are having difficulty with that because of impatience, probably.
I do not mean that unkindly. I am not accusing you of being impatient.:cheerful: It just happens that many archers find the "wait" is too much to bear and give it a good squeeze, to get the shot away.
Again, shoot close to the boss with a nice easy aiming system. Get to full draw and lean on the wall and lean on the trigger( you can think about both as one action;lean on both)Then comes the leap of faith. By just leaning you will find the trigger goes as if by itself. You will get a surprise. Your arms may fly everywhere but that is not the focus. Getting the leaning to trigger the shot is the focus. When it happens give a score out of ten and see how things improve. Score surprises as high and punches low and note how the surprises start to outnumber the others. To add to the fun, give the more patient surprises a higher score than the less patient ones.
Patience with the release is the key, as it is with a clicker.Faith in the fact that the release will happen with patience, is the starting point in all of this.
 

pwiles1968

New member
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
There is plenty of advice here, but I would Just add 1 thing, don't be in a rush to push the poundage up, I am shooting the tribute at 53# on the smooth cam 26" draw and shooting relatively heavy FMJ's, I can hit the 100 yard mark without any problems.

I am guessing your arrows are from your Recurve? if so you may well be able to get away with shorter ones on your compound that will stiffen them up a bit, what is the draw length set to? If you need to buy more and budget is an issue the FMJ's are a bargain outdoor arrow, a shop can get them. For indoors don't worry about spine get the thickest arrows you can get away with anything up to 2315, xx75/78 will be fine and lots of spare knocks you will go through loads.
 
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Adam

Active member
Welcome to the dark side David.

Yes, the arrows are too weak - especially the Ace's. 470's would be better, or even 420's (especially if you go up to 57lb), and 110 grain points will work better.

The ability to hold still is often a question of bow balance. Play about with rods and weights and see what works for you. Draw length is also critical here - too long and your aim will drift about, too short and you'll be able to aim better but will get left/right shots. Tiller can have a big effect too: I find about 1/4 inch positive tiller helps me stay on the middle.

Adam
 

Marcus26

Well-known member
NEVER try to hold the dot on the X, but concentrate on the X like burning a hole in it with your eyes. Look past the dot, and trust your eyes to center the shot for you.
I disagree, the more I concentrate holding the dot still the better I am at doing it and the higher I score. Looking past teh dot simply makes me hold less still and opens the groups up.
 
M

Moose

Guest
Welcome to the dark side

When you decide to up the poundage do not just go to 57lb try a few different poundages you will find that there will be one may be two poundages that the bow holds steady at the best and it should be these that you use, my bow is set at 56lb because at 55 it would wobble and at 57 it was not as stable as at 56 yet I have no problem with a 58lb hoyt holding it steady because that was what the bow liked.

Marcus - I got a Saturday night Special and wow I love it especially the way the trigger folds away when activated:cake: :cake:
 

Zanda

New member
balance question

Welcome to the dark side David.

Yes, the arrows are too weak - especially the Ace's. 470's would be better, or even 420's (especially if you go up to 57lb), and 110 grain points will work better.

The ability to hold still is often a question of bow balance. Play about with rods and weights and see what works for you. Draw length is also critical here - too long and your aim will drift about, too short and you'll be able to aim better but will get left/right shots. Tiller can have a big effect too: I find about 1/4 inch positive tiller helps me stay on the middle.

Adam
Hi Adam, the tribute I am using is a cracking little bow, is it possible to add weights to the back of the riser to make it better balanced, as it is all too eager to tilt forwards, more so than I am happy with :cheerful:
 

Marcus26

Well-known member
Moose - Glad you like it. It's a brilliant mechanism IMHO.
Zanda - I shoot an Allegiance which is the same riser and use a back weight, a side weight and also a 26" stabilizer.
What is the length of your current stabilizer with it?
 

Zanda

New member
long rod length

Moose - Glad you like it. It's a brilliant mechanism IMHO.
Zanda - I shoot an Allegiance which is the same riser and use a back weight, a side weight and also a 26" stabilizer.
What is the length of your current stabilizer with it?
Hi Marcus, current rod is around 31 inch's, I am looking for a steadier hold on gold, I am not naive enough to think I can hold dead steady on gold, but the tribute is a little too ready to tilt forwards( i know that some tilt forwards is a good thing ) but want to get it a little more in balance:cheerful:
 

Marcus26

Well-known member
I find the Cartel Beiter copies too front heavy. Try a Doinker 27" Abomb rod with supression mount. This will bring more weight back toward your hand and help balence a bit nicer. I have most of my mass at the riser, not teh end of the stabilizer. I have a 1" Abomb and one weight on the end of my Vibracheck.
 

Zanda

New member
a favour pls

I find the Cartel Beiter copies too front heavy. Try a Doinker 27" Abomb rod with supression mount. This will bring more weight back toward your hand and help balence a bit nicer. I have most of my mass at the riser, not teh end of the stabilizer. I have a 1" Abomb and one weight on the end of my Vibracheck.
Hi Marcus, thanks for that, I wonder if you could/would post a pic of your set up? it would better help to see how you set the bow up, many thanks :cheerful:
 
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