Compound Bow Just ordered a Carter Lucky wrist release

The Meggy

Active member
I have been spending too much money on archery gear already this year, but what the heck - I recently came to the conclusion I've tended to underspend on release aids, and I accordingly have just shelled out on a Carter Lucky. I've always been a wrist release shooter really, but this is the first time I've spent anything like this much on a release, or indeed bought a Carter model. Other ones I've had include a classic Fletchmatic, Skorten roller type, TruBall Loopmaster (actually several of these), and Hotshot Nano (in current use). For a fair few years now I've worked on pulling through the shot using (dare I claim it?) increasing back tension - with I think at least fair success. I admit that some shots are more of the command variety, having said that, maybe especially so in windy conditions. I try to look at the middle and keep the pull going basically. But the reasons for buying the Carter Lucky being:

a) The dimensions/geometry look about spot on where I like them - trigger not too far forward, and nice straight shape. Somehow I don't fancy the swept-back triggers I see on some wrist releases.

b) This release is said to have virtually zero trigger travel, with an independent trigger tension adjustment (via removable magnets) - I really think this will help me to shoot cleanly and without the occasional anticipation issues I sometimes have. The Hotshot Nano is fairly good, but I do sometimes still detect a little movement of the trigger before the shot goes, and it can be disconcerting. I think I could say that I've have similar issues with every other wrist release I've tried over the last 20 years.

c) It's a double sear design, and they reckon this means that the pressure needed to set it off stays constant, regardless of holding weight. With my current release I do sometimes find myself at full draw still waiting for the shot to go off, when the ideal window for that to happen has passed. Maybe it's down to me pulling on the wall a little harder than usual, which does cause the Hotshot Nano to load up a bit more. OK, one can always come down and start again, but not ideal. Consistency in how gear operates has to be a good thing, so I hope the Carter Lucky will help my shooting in this respect.

Hope I made a good choice - I was also looking at the Carter 2-Shot and Like Mike models, although the Like Mike really is a bit on the pricey side for me. I'm sure either of those would have done me proud also. Just posting out of interest though, as ever... :)
 

dgmultimedia

Supporter
Supporter
I have the same problem - there is always some other bit of kit I want to "try out"....

I shoot compound with a 3 finger hand release and have tried several from the Scott Backspin - very inconsistent ! this got consigned to the bottom of the kit bag very quickly...
a Tru-Ball blade pro - very nice to shoot ( thumb release trigger ) and when setup accurately it is sweet.
Just got a Tru-ball HDX pro - so called back tension - which in reality is triggered by hand angle - the Safety trigger makes it really easy to let down if i need to and always gives me a very consistent release point without thinking about it....
maybe now I can concentrate on practicing rather than worrying about new gadgets!!!!
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I spent a lot of time trying out several release aids. Expensive hobby!!!
I was trying to find the one that would work just right for me, as I had been having serious problems triggering before the sight reached the gold.
I was advised by lots of people on this forum.Their advice was sound and I did try hard to work on the things that were suggested.
In the end, the truth of what was being put to me became apparent.
Decide on what you want to happen and be patient, while the technique improves, to the point where you hardly know you are doing anything.
Finding the perfect release aid isn't as important as using a good triggering method and using it well.
There is no doubt that some release aids are better made than others. There is no doubt that some archers can make better use of the same release aid I am using.
 

The Meggy

Active member
I have the same problem - there is always some other bit of kit I want to "try out"....

I shoot compound with a 3 finger hand release and have tried several from the Scott Backspin - very inconsistent ! this got consigned to the bottom of the kit bag very quickly...
a Tru-Ball blade pro - very nice to shoot ( thumb release trigger ) and when setup accurately it is sweet.
Just got a Tru-ball HDX pro - so called back tension - which in reality is triggered by hand angle - the Safety trigger makes it really easy to let down if i need to and always gives me a very consistent release point without thinking about it....
maybe now I can concentrate on practicing rather than worrying about new gadgets!!!!
Interesting to hear about - I know there's always another bit of gear to try, but it does sound like you've found your way to a release that works well for you. Hoping my purchase suits me as well! :)

I spent a lot of time trying out several release aids. Expensive hobby!!!
I was trying to find the one that would work just right for me, as I had been having serious problems triggering before the sight reached the gold.
I was advised by lots of people on this forum.Their advice was sound and I did try hard to work on the things that were suggested.
In the end, the truth of what was being put to me became apparent.
Decide on what you want to happen and be patient, while the technique improves, to the point where you hardly know you are doing anything.
Finding the perfect release aid isn't as important as using a good triggering method and using it well.
There is no doubt that some release aids are better made than others. There is no doubt that some archers can make better use of the same release aid I am using.
Having been through "issues" myself in the past (perhaps not as severe as yours, but still appreciable) I have to agree one can't buy oneself out of that kind of problem. It's in one's head, and there lies the solution as well I think. And no question good technique ranks far higher in importance than any bit of gear. But I also think we shouldn't kid ourselves that the gear makes no difference at all - if well chosen, then good quality stuff can certainly help the archer shoot that bit better. Surely you'd agree with that, at least to some extent Geoff? So forgive me if I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my new release, and seeing what I can do with it. :)
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I hope all goes well for youb when the new release arrives. I have a Two Shot and I would like a lighter trigger so I am going to try and get hold of a Spott Hogg Wiseguy.
 

The Meggy

Active member
I hope all goes well for youb when the new release arrives. I have a Two Shot and I would like a lighter trigger so I am going to try and get hold of a Spott Hogg Wiseguy.
Thanks JT - I did notice that Spot Hogg Wiseguy model when doing my online research and it looks pretty nice, although I'd like to know what kind of mechanism it has - I think it might be a link type like the Hotshot Nano and various Fletcher models? I did remember your high praise of the Two Shot, and that release seems to be generally very highly thought of, so I'm certain it's a superb release - it was on the shortlist. In the end I just somehow had a hunch re the Lucky suiting my needs - I'd be interested to know if it has a trigger that can go a little lighter than that on the Two Shot, but I guess impossible to know without being able to back-to-back test. If you do get hold of the SH Wiseguy, I'd also be interested to hear your thoughts on that one.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi The Meggy,
But I also think we shouldn't kid ourselves that the gear makes no difference at all - if well chosen, then good quality stuff can certainly help the archer shoot that bit better. Surely you'd agree with that, at least to some extent Geoff?
Good gear, well chosen, is a help. Sometimes a bigger help than others would give it credit for. My post was a bit one sided,I don't know why, perhaps I was in that frame of mind at the time. I think that there are times when what we need is an injection of " something new". That something can be new kit or new form change.I find the excitement of the "new" can kick start us into better ways.
I was offered a way out of TP and the excitement of knowing that it was going to work, was a huge part of getting better. New arrows can give us a boost, but as they require no real form change, the effects can be short lived. A new release aid, specially if it requires us to change the way we operate, can kick start a beginning down a new and better routine.A new release aid is in your hand and feels different and we know it is different every shot. That is enough to give us a reason to work harder in order to get more from it.
I did work hard with my new release aids, but in the wrong way. I was going own the route of trying different trigger settings. I should have spent more time getting the operation sorted. It's like having a clicker and using up far too much time trying to find the perfect position; when time is better spent working on better shot process.
 

The Meggy

Active member
Thanks for your post Geoff, and don't get me wrong, I do understand where you're coming from. Your earlier post did seem a bit like you were turning the thread towards "you can't cure target panic with a new release" - which while I would agree was not really what I was posting about (not currently suffering from the dreaded affliction). I do like what you're saying above though, although in my case I don't think I'm really after a completely new release aid experience. It's more that I'm aware that I'm trying to use a certain approach to shooting, and although my current release has some attributes that help with this, there are other things about it that can be improved in that regard. So I feel I've chosen my new release, to the best of my knowledge and what I can find out on the web, to rectify those specific points - e.g. constant rather than variable trigger tension, no perceptible trigger movement. A refinement rather than a revolution, if you will - we will see if it works out of course... :D
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Cheers, The Meggy, your post is good.
I can see what you are saying about TP, I wasn't really trying to say that but gave that impression; sorry. What I was trying to say was sort of aimed at any readers who were reading the thread, no one in particular.
You are right, that some release aids have attributes that make the job in hand, easier or more successful. The constant trigger pressure and the no perceptible trigger movement, are things that can help, specially when you are already looking for just that sort of thing.
I loaned one of mine to a very good archer who stopped shooting 20+ years ago. The idea of no perceptible movement was alien to her and hated the idea. That draws my attention to that aspect, in a way that I would have overlooked. The power of the mind??
One of the things that strikes me about the whole aspect of changing something( gear or form change) is the approach to that change.
Let me use a clicker as an example, as most archers have some experience of using them.
Sometimes when a new archer starts with a clicker, they say things like, " I'll give it a go; I can always take it off if it doesn't work."
Sometimes the response is much more positive." I'll get one and work on getting myself sorted."
 

The Meggy

Active member
Well, it's all good really Geoff, and no need to apologise I assure you - we've had an interesting discussion which can't be bad. I suppose with any kind of archery kit, there is an element of the archer needing to be prepared to adapt to get the best out of it - which of course can imply time and effort. And on the other side of the coin, the archer may also look to buy kit that best suits what they have already learned and worked on - their own style if you like. So a balance to be struck there I'd say.

Just taking myself and release aids as an example - in the past, and quite recently, I have considered getting a hinge type, which would be a revolution for me to do. I imagine that would involve a lot of adapting, and time and work from me before it bore much fruit. But considering things, I feel I've been on a long (20 years) journey using wrist release aids, and although it's still evolving, that's a lot to throw away. So I've chosen the refinement route - there will still be some adapting needed with the new release of course, but I'm confident about my reasons for getting it.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
So I've chosen the refinement route - there will still be some adapting needed with the new release of course, but I'm confident about my reasons for getting it.
I think it is all sounding good. I feel it is good to notice a difference and that leads to new learning; sometimes it is the new learning that moves us on a level.
The hinge is a great type of release aid. It has a unique character, in the way you know the hinge is moving but never know when exactly it will release. I found that very relaxing; in the sense that there was no doubt it was moving towards a certainty. With resistane activated ones, you can be pulling and not making any progress, but aren't aware of the fact. Again, like pulling through a clicker but hovering rather than progressing.
 

The Meggy

Active member
Interesting Geoff - what you say re the hinge type does make me consider that in my case I may be right to not get one. "you know it's moving but you don't know when..." sounds like a recipe for disaster with me. I can see that it could be a recipe for success in other hands though. Perhaps what I've learned to do is increase pressure on the trigger in response to a steady aim - I know what I try to do is to look at the middle, keep pulling, and wait for the shot to go. With the wrist release, I suppose that any perceived movement of the trigger can give the impression that release is imminent, and then we get anticipation rearing it's ugly head. I think if I switched to a hinge type, it might be quite hard for me to train my brain out of that idea, and accept the movement. But I'm not getting one, so I'll never know! :D
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
What you say about trigger movement is correct, but on a wrist type that movement is so short that the release is very much imminent. The hinge is far longer and is like pulling through for clicker. You want it to go and it does and you know it will. There are other problems with them, but this isn't the place for that.
I feel that the stiff trigger allows the tension to build safely without fear. To my way of thinking, the pulling masks the sense that the release has opened and the follow through is natural, not faked or crabby.
 

The Meggy

Active member
I wouldn't wish to argue Geoff - in my previous post, I was speaking purely about how I personally might struggle to use a hinge type release. Forgive me, but I'm not quite understanding re what you say about tension building safely and follow through being natural - are you talking about the wrist type release there?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi ;we aren't arguing; just chatting about experiences we've had, yes?
The hinge can be a struggle to get used to; I found that drawing the bow was inclined to bring on a release about half way through!!! not nice. The moving trigger is held on three fingers so it isn't so frightening as it would be .
The building tension, was for a normal trigger. thumb or index finger. I should re word that as it isn't tension as in nervous or stressed. The archer pulls through like with a clicker. The string doesn't move in the same way, but to the archer it can feel very similar. The release happens while that pulling is building and the pulling masks the trigger action, so it is the follow through that happens and gets noticed. In contrast, a deliberate press on a light trigger while the archer has come to a stop, can make the release feel as if it is the only thing that needs to be done, and the draw can get sloppy and the triggering can become a punch, with a faked follow through.
 

The Meggy

Active member
Thanks for clarifying there Geoff - I did think you were probably talking about wrist releases (and as you say thumb trigger also) but wasn't quite sure. And no, not arguing I'm sure - perhaps I should have said "disagree" although I doubt there's much of that either. But I find with archery, to some extent we all carry our own truths with us - things sometimes seem to work a certain way for one person, and yet to another, they may seem to be spouting nonsense! :D I do now understand what you meant describing the benefit of a harder trigger tension. For myself, I've found I need it to be hard enough that I can rest my finger on the trigger and not have the shot go off immediately i.e. a bit of work is still needed. But I doubt I have anything like as hard a tension as some use/advocate. What I think happens (which may or may not be the truth, you decide :D ) is that I get to a settled aim, which involves having a certain amount of back tension/pull going on (actually I think there's kind of a balance of certain muscle groups going on) and then a very subtle increase in pull has the result that the finger tightens and sets the release off.

^That's an ideal version of events - if I'm honest there are times when something in my brain just sees a steady sight picture and trips the release off. And actually those "command" shots can go very well I find, so I'm not really sure if I should try to eliminate them. In windy conditions, a lot of the shots might happen like that. As long as the shot goes in an unanticipated way perhaps is the main thing. I seem to get some sort of follow through happening however things are working, and I don't believe it's manufactured or faked in my case.

Another condition I get is that the release sometimes doesn't go off in the expected time frame - as I said earlier, I speculate that I may be pulling a bit harder on the wall at such times, and that also increases the tension needed on the release trigger. It can be an issue because at that point I may be tempted to start consciously pulling on the trigger to make the arrow go - then the brain is distracted from the "look at the middle and pull" business, and maybe a bit of anticipation can start also. I can get around this sometimes by thinking about starting a kind of transfer of pressure to the trigger finger (that's how I visualize it) and then returning the mind to the aim/pull. Like a lot of archers who've been shooting a while, I suspect there's a whole bag of mental tricks in my head, which actually can help me get through a tournament. On my best days, I'm pretty consistent though, and the look-pull works fairly well - I'd hate to give the impression it's a confused mess... ;)

And having "confessed" above, I still have hopes that the new release might play some role in achieving a little more consistent form, and a few more points here and there.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
It seems from that post that we have both been down the same roads.
I had an Evo type and getting that to trigger was easy some times and delayed on others, as if the trigger changed its stiffness to spite me.
Again, it seems like the problems we could have with a clicker when on some shots it goes and others the arrows are too long. The mind can play tricks; but eliminating the release from the equation can't be a bad thing.
Over the couple of years where I worked continually on just getting the release to go, I found that there are several ways to activate the release.
It seemed that the more successful ways, included doing the essentail part of pulling more.( as opposed to stopping or creeping)
If we treat the jaw of the release aid as fixed( it can't move as it is on the d-loop which is fixed) then all we need to do is let the hand slide back away from that d-loop. That sliding has to include keeping whichever digit is used for triggering in a fixed position/shape. To clarify that, an index finger that is curled round the trigger, stays equally curled. A thumb that is wrapped round the thumb trigger remains equally wrapped. The curl or wrap remains the same shape, the joint/s is not curling more over time. The whole hand slides back bringing the finger or thumb into a heavier contact with its trigger. So the digit doesn't do the work it is the hand and its pulling action. To me, that means one action produces both of required effects of triggering and continuing the drawing action.
Put another way, if your hand froze solid while the digit was wrapped round its trigger, then darwing further would create a situation where the hand would slip back through the loop of the wrist strap. As it slips back, the digit activated the trigger.
I imagine that while shooting and notice that my hand pulls and the trigger goes, without any thought of sqeezing the thumb or finger. I visualise the pulling as two guy ropes pulling the aim steady, like two guy ropes holds the tent pole steady.( my two guy ropes are the bow arm and the draw arm)
 

The Meggy

Active member
...If we treat the jaw of the release aid as fixed( it can't move as it is on the d-loop which is fixed) then all we need to do is let the hand slide back away from that d-loop. That sliding has to include keeping whichever digit is used for triggering in a fixed position/shape. To clarify that, an index finger that is curled round the trigger, stays equally curled. A thumb that is wrapped round the thumb trigger remains equally wrapped. The curl or wrap remains the same shape, the joint/s is not curling more over time. The whole hand slides back bringing the finger or thumb into a heavier contact with its trigger. So the digit doesn't do the work it is the hand and its pulling action. To me, that means one action produces both of required effects of triggering and continuing the drawing action.
I can relate very much to this idea - I have the same kind of thing going on I think - setting the trigger finger in a fixed position, and then just a bit more pull - that makes a lot of sense to me. Of course with a wrist strap, one might think that since the pull is effectively from the strap contact around the wrist, which is also linked to the release at the same point, that an increased pull can't move the hand relative to the trigger. But it still seems to work for me - I haven't really analysed why...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
[/Of course with a wrist strap, one might think that since the pull is effectively from the strap contact around the wrist, which is also linked to the release at the same point, that an increased pull can't move the hand relative to the trigger. But it still seems to work for me - I haven't really analysed why...]
When we wrap a strap round our wrist and pull on the release aid with our other hand, we can see the hand can slide back slightly as if being pulled back through the loop, or deeper into it. When we release the pull, the hand pops out slightly again. The same sort of sliding in, or deeper into, goes on as we go over the peak weight and then, at let off, the hand creeps out again. When we pull through in the final seconds of the draw/aim, the hand slowly slides into the loop, the loop stays attached to the d-loop just like the release aid itself.
If you make a loop of strong cord and fit the jaw onto it, you can pull the cord away from the release aid with your bow hand and your draw hand can resist. By wrapping the finger round the trigger you can see how the finger remains rigid while the hand slides into the loop and off goes the release. NO need to think of the finger.
 

The Meggy

Active member
[/Of course with a wrist strap, one might think that since the pull is effectively from the strap contact around the wrist, which is also linked to the release at the same point, that an increased pull can't move the hand relative to the trigger. But it still seems to work for me - I haven't really analysed why...]
When we wrap a strap round our wrist and pull on the release aid with our other hand, we can see the hand can slide back slightly as if being pulled back through the loop, or deeper into it. When we release the pull, the hand pops out slightly again. The same sort of sliding in, or deeper into, goes on as we go over the peak weight and then, at let off, the hand creeps out again. When we pull through in the final seconds of the draw/aim, the hand slowly slides into the loop, the loop stays attached to the d-loop just like the release aid itself.
If you make a loop of strong cord and fit the jaw onto it, you can pull the cord away from the release aid with your bow hand and your draw hand can resist. By wrapping the finger round the trigger you can see how the finger remains rigid while the hand slides into the loop and off goes the release. NO need to think of the finger.
Sounds like you have done a thorough analysis there Geoff! I do have a string loop, so I can do as you suggest and have a look at that myself. I think the take home point you make may be don't think about the finger - set it in position, and then aim/pull. Hoping the new release may arrive today, if Royal Mail are on form. :)
 
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