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Discuss Peep Sight Line Up at the Compound Bow within Archery Interchange UK Forums; Hi all as i'm completely new to compound shooting i was wondering how you line ...
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    In the Black Gerry's Avatar
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    Peep Sight Line Up

    Hi all as i'm completely new to compound shooting i was wondering how you line up your peep to front sight eg: Say i had my front sight at the top of it's scale for short distance say 15yards and i line up my peep with what i think is the correct position on string about 130mm from nock take aim and shoot, the arrow hits way low. Do i move my sight down the scale to compensate or move the peep up or down to realign.When i say low i'm talking 2feet from the point aimed at.Or am i reading to much into this.
    “Practice doesn’t make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.”






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    In the Red
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    The peep should stay in a fixed position, that is the distance from you nocking point to your eye. If you anchor point is consistant then the peep should not need to be moved.

    You only need to alter the bowsight as you would with a recurve. ie. If hitting low then move sight down.
    It's all about consistancy................unfortunatly I am consistantly bad

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    It's an X AIUK subscriber. Rik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Greig
    The peep should stay in a fixed position, that is the distance from you nocking point to your eye. If you anchor point is consistant then the peep should not need to be moved.

    You only need to alter the bowsight as you would with a recurve. ie. If hitting low then move sight down.
    Or... the peep should not need to be moved, often. I find that the peep setup for long distances and for indoors is slightly different. It's to do with the peep/sight/reference-point relationship. But this is with aluminium shafts. I suspect that if I shot carbons out of this bow, I'd have a tighter set of sight marks and less reason to move the peep.

    But yes, you certainly don't move it as a way of sighting in...

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    In the Gold Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rik
    Or... the peep should not need to be moved, often. I find that the peep setup for long distances and for indoors is slightly different.
    The reason it's different indoors is actually mainly to do with the lighting. At lower light levels (i.e. indoors) the pupil dilates further and widens the angle of view, so you see more through your peep than you would see outdoors. For indoors, try pulling the sigh extension in towards the bow until your sight picture is the same as you would see outdoors.

    Gerry, your peep should be immovable. A tiny shift in the height of the peep will have a huge difference in the impact point at the target, especially outdoors where the distances are greater. By trial and error find the spot where your peep sits comfortably in front of your eye when you take-up a comfortable (and easilly repeatable) anchor point. Once you've done that, tie-in the peep sight using either dental floss or serving material. Adjust your bow sight to move the impact point of the arrows to where you want them to be (i.e. in the middle of what you're aiming at).

    When you aim at the target you should see a series of concentric circles: your spot/pin/rin, then the gold, then the housing of your scope, then your peep. If they don't all line up, you'll probably miss one way or the other. At the very least, you'll have trouble being consistent.

    Adam

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    Gerry, Once you have found your reference point, come up to full draw on the boss at say 5 yards, with your eyes closed! Open your eye that looks through the peep and the peep should be directly in line with your eye. If not, adjust it so it is, then lock it on the string. Outdoors you should get away with a micro peep, indoors a small peep and in the field if you shoot field, where light conditions can be low, a medium peep. I always find the large and hunter peeps too big but it is down to the individual

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    In the Black Gerry's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice guys most appreciated.I think the problem i have is the reference point and using various release aids as i'm still experimenting. There relationship to my setup position changes slightly so all wil change slightly.Does that make sense ?
    “Practice doesn’t make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.”

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    In the Gold Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry
    Thanks for the advice guys most appreciated.I think the problem i have is the reference point and using various release aids as i'm still experimenting. There relationship to my setup position changes slightly so all wil change slightly.Does that make sense ?
    Yes, but you'll only start to see an improvement in your shooting when you pick one combo and work with it for a while. Change later, by all means, but establish a benchmark first.

    Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    The reason it's different indoors is actually mainly to do with the lighting. At lower light levels (i.e. indoors) the pupil dilates further and widens the angle of view, so you see more through your peep than you would see outdoors. For indoors, try pulling the sigh extension in towards the bow until your sight picture is the same as you would see outdoors.
    Sorry, it's not the lighting. Picture the angles. If you move the sight-block a few inches downwards, and keep the same facial reference, the line from your eye to the sight ring passes below the peep. How much lower depends on how far the peep is from your eye, and how far down the sight-block moves.
    I looked up some old sightmarks from when I was shooting ali shafts at about 46# (so, slow, in compound terms). Checking in dimmish (daytime indoor) lighting conditions, I found I'd have to move the peep down about 1/2" to see the sight ring through it, when moving the sight-block from the 20 yard to the 90m marks...

    I'd second the "pick one and work with it" advice. You don't get consistency by changing things.

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    In the Gold Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rik
    I found I'd have to move the peep down about 1/2" to see the sight ring through it, when moving the sight-block from the 20 yard to the 90m marks...
    Sorry Rik, that just doesn't make sense. Can you explain to me why the distance between your anchor point and your eye changes just because someone turns down the lights?

    The one fixed thing in all of this is the relative position of your draw hand and eyeball. I have NEVER had to change the height of my peep when going from indoors to out. Yes, the height of my bowsight changes, and I change the extension too, but I only adjust the extension to correct a sight pictures that changes when I come indoors.

    Incidentally, if you ask around you'll find many compound shooters will tell you their sight pictures changes depending on whether they are shooting in full sun or deep shade.

    Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Sorry Rik, that just doesn't make sense. Can you explain to me why the distance between your anchor point and your eye changes just because someone turns down the lights?

    The one fixed thing in all of this is the relative position of your draw hand and eyeball. I have NEVER had to change the height of my peep when going from indoors to out. Yes, the height of my bowsight changes, and I change the extension too, but I only adjust the extension to correct a sight pictures that changes when I come indoors.

    Incidentally, if you ask around you'll find many compound shooters will tell you their sight pictures changes depending on whether they are shooting in full sun or deep shade.

    Adam
    The light doesn't have anything to do with it...

    Let us say the relationship between the peep and the reference point is fixed. The relationship between the eye and the reference point is fixed. The relationship between the eye and the target is fixed (for target shooting). The sight-block moves. So the angle at which your eye is looking past the string changes. If the sight-block moves less, then the angular change is less, so faster bow and carbon arrows will see less of an effect.
    Similarly, smaller changes in distance will produce less sight-block movement.

    A diagram shows it more clearly


    (funny I've got drawing and diagramming software and it's still quicker to draw it by hand and take a picture )

    If you don't want to move the peep, then the only way out is to alter another fixed relationship, say the reference-point/eye one. So in effect you change the position of your eye, by shifting your drawing hand (and as a result; the peep) in relation to it. This is okay (and unavoidable) for small changes - going down a distance on a FITA, for example. Depending on setup, the amount of change may not be great enough to be noticeable - a small fraction of an inch down.

    Basically, you've got a straight line from your eye to the target and need to put the scope and the peep somewhere on this line. That's four points, two of which (eye and target) are more or less fixed in absolute terms. Of the other two, one can (has to) move - the scope. The last point (the peep) you get in line by fiddling with the angle at which the bow ends up.

    There are a number of variables which would affect how much movement you'd see. The speed of the setup and sightmarks, I've already mentioned. The distance from the peep to your eye would also have and effect (closer = less movement).

    This all ignores any effects (good or bad) due to light changes. I'd guess that lower light conditions would make it easier to find an angle at which you could see through the peep (less movement needed) as your pupils would dilate. But that's just a guess.
    Any photographers out there care to comment?

    Sorry for the essay...

  12. #11
    rgsphoto
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    Hmmm

    From a photography point of view a wide pupil will give more light, but less depth of field. This does not matter as we are focusing on one place, depth of field is not important to the human eye, peripheral vision is always blurd, moreso indoors. Unlike a camera lens, eyes go for maximum light and will stop down the pupil to an ideal level according to the light available. eyes work in real time, cameras work in timed exposure, depending on what results are needed. Indoors, light is always less than outdoors, so we need a bigger peep sight hole to get more light. A peep acts very much like a pin hole camera. The smaller the hole the sharper the image, but the more time or light to produce an image. Sharp target images don't seem to be important to us, more a clear view of the scope ring and the target rings too. I adjust my sight bar to accomodate this. I prefer a large peep, say 1/16 or more indoors just to get a brighter image. 1/16 or less outdoors.

    With regard to peep site placement. This needs to be set by an on looker, or by setting it with your head in a natural place. No way should you be searching, or bending your head to accomodate a poorly placed peep site.

    Without getting all complicated about angles and stuff, fast compound bows don't suffer much with peep sight position during the transition from indoors to outdoors, as the scope will not move a great deal over the given 30,50, 70, 90 distances etc, say 2" in total? Slower bows may run out of tolerable angle changes. In this case the peep may need to be moved a little to compensate, probably down a little. This movement will have a dramatic effect on sight marks. I prefer to set my peep outdoors for the longer distances, and make do with the position for the shorter ones. I suspect when I do move outdoors ( can't wait) I will not need to move my peep, but my bow is set at 58lb with quite fast arrows. A 45lb bow will probably need a little peep adjustment.
    Last edited by rgsphoto; 01-03-06 at 12:02 PM.

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    In the Gold Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rik
    Basically, you've got a straight line from your eye to the target and need to put the scope and the peep somewhere on this line.
    Rik, you seem to be overlooking the fact the the eye, peep, scope and sight REMAIN on the same straight line, irrespective of the distance. It's the launching platform that moves, relative to the scope, as the scope is moved up or down its track.

    Yes, the peep moves through a very small arc as the bow (the launching platform) is raised from one extreme to the other, but it such a small movement that it can pretty much be discounted.

    Adam

  14. #13
    rgsphoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Rik, you seem to be overlooking the fact the the eye, peep, scope and sight REMAIN on the same straight line, irrespective of the distance. It's the launching platform that moves, relative to the scope, as the scope is moved up or down its track.

    Yes, the peep moves through a very small arc as the bow (the launching platform) is raised from one extreme to the other, but it such a small movement that it can pretty much be discounted.

    Adam
    I think your scores on the doors prove yourt words here Adam. In your case you simply don't need to move the peep for any distance.

  15. #14
    rgsphoto
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    Check out this link on Scopes & peeps, interesting stuff.

    http://www.alansarchery.pwp.blueyond...pticsFrame.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Rik, you seem to be overlooking the fact the the eye, peep, scope and sight REMAIN on the same straight line, irrespective of the distance. It's the launching platform that moves, relative to the scope, as the scope is moved up or down its track.
    I'm not overlooking it, I'm relying on it.

    You move the scope... The launching platform, which also moves to accomodate this change, includes the draw hand (and hence the reference point).

    Okay, lets find another angle on this...

    Picture a line from the peep to the scope. If you move the scope up and down the sight bar, the angle of this line relative to the bow will change.

    Continue that line on through the peep. For you to see through the peep, the end of that line has to intersect with your eye.

    As the angle of the line changes, your eye must move relative to the bow (actually, you move the bow, but it's the same effect), to let you carry on being able to see the scope through the peep.

    Your draw hand is attached to the bow. So if the bow has to move relative to your eye, the hand does too. So your reference point moves.

    Tell me which bit of this explanation doesn't work for you and I'll try and nail it down a little tighter...


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