Other The sense of achievement???

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I have read the post by Marcus37, his sense of achievement and it has got me thinking. ( Yes I know, perhaps I shouldn't.) It occurs to me that maybe compound has got a little bit too easy. Is it time to make compound more difficult? and if so how? the ranges could be increased, but that would but that might make some venues marginal. I'm thinking that the best way would be to use smaller faces, 80cm instead of 122cm and 60cm instead 80cm. Or maybe new sizes like 1m and 70cm, so what do you think?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think sense of achievement is a very wide topic.
I can understand that one bow form can give some archers a better sense of achievement than another; because some bows leave the archer with more things to do without help from the bow itself or the extras.
As to compound getting too easy; it has always been that way. The bows offer the archers things that are not available to other styles,( crossbows might be an exception)
Should we make compound more difficult by shooting at smaller faces or at longer distances? I don't think so.
A sense of achievement is usually about how one person feels about something they have done. Or a team of people. We judge those achievements against the performances of others, sometimes; and against our previous performances sometimes. Personal bests are even displayed at World Championships.
As compounds don't shoot against other bow styles, there is no need to make targets smaller. Achievements will come from higher scores; be they personal bests or records at all sorts of levels.
I suppose a change might be needed if lots of compound archers started to shoot Max scores at every distance. I think that is still some way off.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think sense of achievement is a very wide topic.
I can understand that one bow form can give some archers a better sense of achievement than another; because some bows leave the archer with more things to do without help from the bow itself or the extras.
As to compound getting too easy; it has always been that way. The bows offer the archers things that are not available to other styles,( crossbows might be an exception)
Should we make compound more difficult by shooting at smaller faces or at longer distances? I don't think so.
A sense of achievement is usually about how one person feels about something they have done. Or a team of people. We judge those achievements against the performances of others, sometimes; and against our previous performances sometimes. Personal bests are even displayed at World Championships.
As compounds don't shoot against other bow styles, there is no need to make targets smaller. Achievements will come from higher scores; be they personal bests or records at all sorts of levels.
I suppose a change might be needed if lots of compound archers started to shoot Max scores at every distance. I think that is still some way off.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
I guess it depends... how do you get on vs the Adam Ravenscrofts and Chris Whites... is it still easy then?? I know on the Easton podcast they have been talking about shooting World Cup compounds at 70m with either an 80cm or a 92cm face to make the discrimination between the very best and the merely very good more obvious. (only conversationally, not because WA is considering this)

It's how you look at the scores. Will you see a jump in scores from recurve to compound, yes. But also how you consider those scores needs to change. A 1200/1440 with a recurve is a pretty good score, but with the compound you're looking to be up around 1325 for an equivalent score. What you need to do is to stop comparing scores to those shot by recurves, but start thinking about those shot by compounds.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Pencil me in for the usual...
If it's too easy and you want a sense of achievement try making your own bow and shooting it...
Del (I'll get my coat...)
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Just 'cos it's always been that way does not mean it's right or that it can't be improved Geoff.
Scores are the only way we have of judging whether not we have achieved or not, and though recurves and compounds don't shoot against each other the scores are compared just as Marcus37 has done. Lets not forget that the whole classification system is based on scores ideally I would like to see him shoot the same scores with a recurve and compound and get the same feeling of achievement for both, and the same classification, but to do that the compound face should be much smaller.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I guess it depends... how do you get on vs the Adam Ravenscrofts and Chris Whites... is it still easy then?? I know on the Easton podcast they have been talking about shooting World Cup compounds at 70m with either an 80cm or a 92cm face to make the discrimination between the very best and the merely very good more obvious. (only conversationally, not because WA is considering this)

It's how you look at the scores. Will you see a jump in scores from recurve to compound, yes. But also how you consider those scores needs to change. A 1200/1440 with a recurve is a pretty good score, but with the compound you're looking to be up around 1325 for an equivalent score. What you need to do is to stop comparing scores to those shot by recurves, but start thinking about those shot by compounds.
How do I get against those two? I get my ass kicked. Nothing new or unusual about that. But if it was a York they would be moaning wasted tens and I would be glad to get the arrows in the gold. if the face were smaller I'd get more reds they would stop moaning about wasted tens and I would still get beaten.
 
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Corax67

Well-known member
I must be doing something wrong - I don't find compound particularly easy at all, I do however really enjoy shooting it.

Sense of achievement is highly personal and highly flexible:

When I finally picked up my recurve again after a mojo meltdown my sense of achievement was triggered the first time I shot a 100yd end and got 6 on! This advanced to finally shooting 1st class scores on 3 consecutive rounds again.

In longbow it was achieving bowman and this was overridden 2 weeks ago when I garnered the Top Gent Longbow title in the last round of this years Mid Kent League season :)

In compound I am currently bouncing over having shot 2 first class rounds from 8 rounds in total - it is a physically easy bow to shoot compared to my other bows HOWEVER the comparatively huge scores needed for each level of classification pressurise you immensely mentally knowing you cannot afford any loose shots.


If people are finding compound too easy then dropping the face sizes is a simple and excellent way forward to increasing the stretch but I hope it wouldn't be a blanket move since novices or casual compounders (like me) find 122cm plenty challenge enough :)




Karl
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I don't recall anyone shooting a 360 90m yet. I'm not sure I've seen a 360 50m yet. As best I can recall is 352 and 358 respectively. On the other hand I've seen hundreds of 180s in darts and no one is suggesting making the dart board smaller... as far as I know.
Then again, if faces need to be made smaller make them the same for all disciplines so you don't have to divide off recurves and compounds. After all it's only a piece of paper we are trying to hit.
 

Mark31121

Member
Ironman
how do you get on vs the Adam Ravenscrofts and Chris Whites...
I read that wrong initially and was thinking that they seemed nice enough chaps, taking the mickey out of each other...

I see archery as a very personal thing, my compound FITA was a smidge under 1200 which I was quite happy with for my first (and only so far) outing last year. I don't feel the need to compare myself with the archers pushing 1400 regularly.

My recurve is frustrating me at the moment, my mid metric needs work. I'm happy with my 90 and 30m scores for now but my 70 and 50 are not so good...
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I've only shot 3 arrows from a compound and the only time I shot a recurve was on my beginners course, but what I have observed is that compound is more mental than the other bow types. Though we can all admit that the bow is easier to shoot and obtain higher scores with compared to the other bows, it is very much the mental side that comes into play at the higher end of the spectrum when shooting against other compounds.

What I find interesting though, for recurve and longbow the 6 (or 3 in longbow) gold end badge are big achievements and often come with years of practice, whilst unless relatively new it's hard to find a compound archer who doesn't have one in the first year or two of them shooting target. now this is only observing compound archers at my own club, so I may have a slanted view.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I've only shot 3 arrows from a compound and the only time I shot a recurve was on my beginners course, but what I have observed is that compound is more mental than the other bow types. Though we can all admit that the bow is easier to shoot and obtain higher scores with compared to the other bows, it is very much the mental side that comes into play at the higher end of the spectrum when shooting against other compounds.

What I find interesting though, for recurve and longbow the 6 (or 3 in longbow) gold end badge are big achievements and often come with years of practice, whilst unless relatively new it's hard to find a compound archer who doesn't have one in the first year or two of them shooting target. now this is only observing compound archers at my own club, so I may have a slanted view.
 
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