x10's v Strammit

kato

New member
broke an x 10 midweek and put it down to bad luck...broke 3 more today and having major sense of humour failure given I've only had the Bowtech a week

they go straight through the target and quite a long way into the wood as well [btw that's located at 10 o'clock and 2o'clock red for those of you who never venture outside gold] even at 80 and sometimes 100yds

this seems to stress them enough so that a couple of shots later 'craaaaack'

breaks occur betwn 2" and 4" from the tip...sometimes both

Is this normal?

And if it is... shitty targets or lousy overrated arrows to blame?
 
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Mufti

Member
I have recently had the same experience with my ACEs - 2 to 4 inches from tip, but then they are 7 or 8 years old.

I have recently been tuning a bow and wonder of they have been sent into the target at an angle and ending up being roughly bent upon entry to the straw??

2-4 inches makes me wonder if you have the same problem - arrow wobble in flight and being stopped wobbling rather quickly when it hits the target??

How is your arrow flight?
What angle do they arrive in the target?
 

kato

New member
Mufti said:
2-4 inches makes me wonder if you have the same problem - arrow wobble in flight and being stopped wobbling rather quickly when it hits the target??

How is your arrow flight?
What angle do they arrive in the target?
I'm using close on 60# so they arrive pretty close to level at 80 and slightly tilted a 100...nothing unusual as far as I can see...they all arrive at pretty much the same angle
 

Max

New member
kato said:
breaks occur betwn 2" and 4" from the tip...sometimes both

Is this normal?

And if it is... shitty targets or lousy overrated arrows to blame?
Fraid so Kato. Was the target on a conventional A frame or a square 4 leg stand? I suspect you were on an A frame and hit high either 10 O'clock or 2 O'clock?

X10's are notoriously fragile. I bust 2 at the Bronte spring weekend doing the same thing on an A frame. Arrow passed through and glanced off the stand leg. I would have got away with it using Navigators, but of course, if I can afford X10's I should be planting them in the gold all the time eh? Lesson learned!
 

kato

New member
Max said:
Fraid so Kato. Was the target on a conventional A frame or a square 4 leg stand? I suspect you were on an A frame and hit high either 10 O'clock or 2 O'clock?

X10's are notoriously fragile. I bust 2 at the Bronte spring weekend doing the same thing on an A frame. Arrow passed through and glanced off the stand leg. I would have got away with it using Navigators, but of course, if I can afford X10's I should be planting them in the gold all the time eh? Lesson learned!

Yep, A frame...[bugger]

would 380 spine make a diference? shooting 450's at the mo...or at least I was...
 

10x

New member
kato said:
broke an x 10 midweek and put it down to bad luck...broke 3 more today and having major sense of humour failure given I've only had the Bowtech a week

they go straight through the target and quite a long way into the wood as well [btw that's located at 10 o'clock and 2o'clock red for those of you who never venture outside gold] even at 80 and sometimes 100yds

this seems to stress them enough so that a couple of shots later 'craaaaack'

breaks occur betwn 2" and 4" from the tip...sometimes both

Is this normal?

And if it is... shitty targets or lousy overrated arrows to blame?

THis happened to a student of mine, the shop say that ist's a fault with some X10s. Easton are replacing them. So teke 'em back.
 

Murray

Well-known member
Ironman
American Shoot
AIUK Saviour
kato said:
shi*** targets or lousy overrated arrows to blame?
I refuse to shoot Strammit nowadays - broke too many ACEs on it, and as for A-Frame - if you're glancing off the wood as well as banging through the strammit, this will be VERY unkind to your arrows. I'd suggest you get a better target to shoot on.
 

CPlater1

New member
a compound shooter I know had a set of x10s, but he would leave with roughly 2 or 3 less arrows as they were going through the targets and breaking. The diameter is one reason they break so easily - in that the thinner arrows go through the target easier.

Chris
 

kato

New member
CPlater1 said:
a compound shooter I know had a set of x10s, but he would leave with roughly 2 or 3 less arrows as they were going through the targets and breaking. The diameter is one reason they break so easily - in that the thinner arrows go through the target easier.

Chris
So we're relegated to using less good arrows because most clubs won't buy decent targets?

I shoot in a recurve league and almost everyone else seems to be using straw targets as well ...what I failed to mention is that the X10's also go through with my [circa 45lb] recurve ...is there no hope?

x10's cost enough without it losing 3 or 4 each time you shoot...
 

Max

New member
kato said:
So we're relegated to using less good arrows because most clubs won't buy decent targets?

I shoot in a recurve league and almost everyone else seems to be using straw targets as well ...what I failed to mention is that the X10's also go through with my [circa 45lb] recurve ...is there no hope?

x10's cost enough without it losing 3 or 4 each time you shoot...
I think the target boss debate will hot up soon (if it is not already hot enough in some circles!) as we see a steady rise in arrow speed (both recurve and compound) and the resulting increase in kinetic energy delivered at the boss. There are various schools of thought - either buy rock hard glue/straw bosses and hope for the best (with up to three archers trying to drag shafts from the boss), or go for very expensive Danage bosses, or high density foam. Most alternative options have storage issues.

There are those who are beginning to think that trying to stop arrows using the boss alone is ultimately pointless [no pun intended!], especially for compound shooters, and in that case, the boss serves to hold the target face in position and most of the stoping power comes from a 'nappy' or thick backstop net suspended behind the target.

Somthing will need to change as we see bows with arrow speeds over 300 fps becoming more common and archers opting for heavier shafts to try and minimise wind drift. You simply can't rely in making the boss tougher and tougher.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Bosses hard enough to halt X10's before they reach the other side, would probably cause the arrows to be damaged by the sudden shock on impact. The insert will support the first part and where the insert ends, the tube will break down.( I suspect)
One answer is the thicker foam bosses. Another is two softer straw ones, one in front of the other. I'm not sure many clubs would want to go down that road.
"H" frame stands are kinder, too, but unpopular for other reasons.
It looks as if the individuals who can afford the more expensive arrows are suffering damage because the clubs can't afford the bosses to handle them.
I can't see that situation changing much either. I can sympathise with your frustration.
 

kato

New member
I don't think it's unsolvable as most of the better foam targets, although not cheap, have replaceable centres so that over time the costs even out.

They have the benefit of being lighter, kinder to arrows and over time, more economical.The two leading brands even have different grades of grip that can be specifed for the centres

The glue and straw option is a joke and in my opinion the worst of all worlds...arrows get clobbered going in and bent out of shape being yanked out.

I suspect that the real reason we won't get anywhere is that 'it's not the way we've done it in the past'.

Things are getting silly if you have to choose your arrows for toughness rather than accuracy....and it is soooo not conducive to encouraging a culture of continuous improvement.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Talk to Marcus about this. He and other Aussie compound archers seem to reckon X10s are extremely durable arrows, provided they aren't shot into strammit targets.
 

kato

New member
JohnK said:
Talk to Marcus about this. He and other Aussie compound archers seem to reckon X10s are extremely durable arrows, provided they aren't shot into strammit targets.

That makes sense...I'm very happy with the arows in every other way.

I've been told that Easton won't guarantee x10's in this country for exactly this reason
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
kato said:
I don't think it's unsolvable as most of the better foam targets, although not cheap, have replaceable centres so that over time the costs even out.

They have the benefit of being lighter, kinder to arrows and over time, more economical.The two leading brands even have different grades of grip that can be specifed for the centres

The glue and straw option is a joke and in my opinion the worst of all worlds...arrows get clobbered going in and bent out of shape being yanked out.

I suspect that the real reason we won't get anywhere is that 'it's not the way we've done it in the past'.

Things are getting silly if you have to choose your arrows for toughness rather than accuracy....and it is soooo not conducive to encouraging a culture of continuous improvement.
Kato, I don't think I can disagree with anything you have said. I did try but even after several reads I still agree with you.
Perhaps I can add a little that may help you feel better. I will at least try.
Changing from straw to foam involves more than replacing old with better when the time comes. Layered foam takes more storage space and handling them is not so easy. (I can put up a straw boss on my own-I would not attempt to do that with layered foam unless there was nothing else to shoot at)
The layered foam has, for some clubs, involved changing the stands in order that handling can be managed by all members. This involves more time and expense.
For those reasons, I think the change over will take time and persuasive effort.
As for, "it's not the way we've done it in the past." you are probably right. This country does seem to have a reputation for such attitudes. Some see that as a plus. Nature plays both sides of the same game.It takes chances a produces new versions but there's always plenty of the old sorts left around in case the new don't succeed. Crocodiles and dodos.
We have all three types of boss at our club. I was involved in the decision to buy. I like them all for different reasons.
I hope you feel a little better);:cheerful:
 

kato

New member
geoffretired said:
Kato, I don't think I can disagree with anything you have said. I did try but even after several reads I still agree with you.
Perhaps I can add a little that may help you feel better. I will at least try.
Changing from straw to foam involves more than replacing old with better when the time comes. Layered foam takes more storage space and handling them is not so easy. (I can put up a straw boss on my own-I would not attempt to do that with layered foam unless there was nothing else to shoot at)
The layered foam has, for some clubs, involved changing the stands in order that handling can be managed by all members. This involves more time and expense.
For those reasons, I think the change over will take time and persuasive effort.
As for, "it's not the way we've done it in the past." you are probably right. This country does seem to have a reputation for such attitudes. Some see that as a plus. Nature plays both sides of the same game.It takes chances a produces new versions but there's always plenty of the old sorts left around in case the new don't succeed. Crocodiles and dodos.
We have all three types of boss at our club. I was involved in the decision to buy. I like them all for different reasons.
I hope you feel a little better);:cheerful:
Despite it sounding like a 'bitch-in' on my part, I'm actually trying to discuss the broader issue...I've lost a few arrows, tough....but I'm hesitating replacing them because the problem is not an isolated one and likely to continue...one archer doing that is no biggie... but if you get alot of archers who compete regularly or are aiming for improved classifications, downgrading/compromising their kit to suit the infrastructure...where then for motivation and uplift in standards or even continued interest in the sport?

The circular foam ones are quite manageable and lighter than straw...if there was more demand, the importers might even bring in the up spec centres...and those are virtually indestructible as well as inexpensive to replace ...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Kato, I wasn't implying that you didn't have good grounds for what you said.I didn't think it sounded like a "bitch-in", either. I am on your side,if that makes sense. I too have lost arrows in those circumstances. I've seen archers have pass through's and not make the score they needed to qualify for something important to them. It is an archery problem and I know it is not just you who feels that way.I know you are wanting to make improvements for the good of archery and not just your own arrows.All I was trying to do was put another side of the coin into the melting pot. I know that won't change the boss situation, but I hoped it might help you feel a little better until the changes are implemented.
Could you tell me more about the round foam bosses? I've not seen any of those.
Thanks
Geoff
 

kato

New member
geoffretired said:
Kato, I wasn't implying that you didn't have good grounds for what you said.I didn't think it sounded like a "bitch-in", either. I am on your side,if that makes sense. I too have lost arrows in those circumstances. I've seen archers have pass through's and not make the score they needed to qualify for something important to them. It is an archery problem and I know it is not just you who feels that way.I know you are wanting to make improvements for the good of archery and not just your own arrows.All I was trying to do was put another side of the coin into the melting pot. I know that won't change the boss situation, but I hoped it might help you feel a little better until the changes are implemented.
Could you tell me more about the round foam bosses? I've not seen any of those.
Thanks
Geoff
Wasn't having a strop at you Geoff...and didn't take offence either..greatly appreciate your contribution to this thread.


The targets I'm referring to are American Whitetail...

the standard centre is not much cop for compound at close range but otherwise terrific ...there's a better spec centre that they make[not imported of course]
 
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