Hex 7 limbs

RMH

Member
I'm sure this may have been asked at some point but I cannot seem to find the thread.
Would anyone know if there maybe the possibility of an ILF Hex7 limb on the horizon?
 

Tuck

New member
This has been asked. The current limbs are designed for the angular setup of the Hunter, but this is being looked at, they are not sure how this could translate to the ILF geometry and still be stable. According to a previous post.


Eat, Drink, Shoot, Enjoy.
 

RMH

Member
Hi Tuck
Thanks, I was sure it had been asked. It would have been nice to pop a set on my ILF BD to try! I do intend going up and trying the CH out hopefully before Bowfest this year.
 

BorderBows

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so far we have managed about 10% more stored energy in the covert hunter over a hex6 bb2 limbed DX risered Black douglas. this is where the covert hunter really shines. so far we have a meduim ILF limb storing 7% more than its equal bb2 in ilf form. a few tweeks and it will be working on all riser lengths. the letdown is the lack of riser deflex in ILF that gives is what we are looking for.
but the prototypes are looking good and shooting well so far.
 

Tuck

New member
Would it be possible to change the limb angle by modification of the bolt or changes to the limb rear pivot point.
A Hex 7 ILF would attract a lot of interest ;-)



Eat, Drink, Shoot, Enjoy.
 

BorderBows

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changing the limb angle is 50% of the puzzle. getting the brace height right on a riser that has small amounts of deflex is the other half.

but yes. an ilf version will be available soon enough. its just a case of working out any minor tweeks that need doing.
 

Greenring

New member
changing the limb angle is 50% of the puzzle. getting the brace height right on a riser that has small amounts of deflex is the other half.

but yes. an ilf version will be available soon enough. its just a case of working out any minor tweeks that need doing.
I've got a 27 inch ILF riser with 44mm of deflex measured from grip throat to limb pivot. I'm not sure how this compares to the CH or where it falls in the range of ILF risers. Will the Hex 7 provide a large benefit over the Hex 6 BB2 on this riser, or would you recommend a riser with more deflex?

If it matters, DL is 31 inches and I'm willing to try medium or long limbs to make a 70 or 72" bow.
 

Timid Toad

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Don't forget most modern risers have two button holes. Using mine gives me 18mm more deflex. I don't have any added problems with torque either.
 

blakey

Active member
Don't forget most modern risers have two button holes. Using mine gives me 18mm more deflex. I don't have any added problems with torque either.
I thought that deflex was measured from the grip pivot? Alas have I been astray again?::confused::confused::confused:
 

Timid Toad

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Yes and no. With a button and rest, the arrow's dynamic behaviour is from the contact with the bow. One release the arrow flexes and the button and rest move. One of the purposes of good deflex is to allow the arrow time to flex correctly as it passes the riser, so using the furthest hole effectively cheats you some space, particularly with a low BH.

If you shoot off the shelf, the convention is to measure from the throat of the grip.
 

Greenring

New member
Don't forget most modern risers have two button holes. Using mine gives me 18mm more deflex. I don't have any added problems with torque either.
I am concerned that insufficient deflex (measured from grip throat) will result in the string striking my forearm more often with low brace height limbs like the Hex series. Button position does not affect this. My understanding is the CH riser is built with extra deflex (measured from grip) to mitigate this contact. So I'd like to know how my riser compares to the CH in this regard.

It sounds like Border must strike a compromise with their Hex 7 ILF--storing maximum energy versus getting high enough brace height to avoid string contact on reflexed risers. As they lean toward accomodating reflexed risers, they lose stored energy storage and at some point you might as well just buy the Hex 6. I would rather they swing toward high performance and give recommendations on compatible risers or deflex measurements. Hence my question above: is 44mm sufficient for a 27 inch riser with medium or long limbs? If not I can buy Hex 6 right away or plan on buying a new riser for the Hex 7.

But you raise another valid point that I didn't consider--it gets tougher to get good fletching clearance around the rest and button at low brace as well. Using the forward button position should help with that.
 

Timid Toad

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Its a good point.
My understanding is that these limbs are in development. They won't be the same as those on the CH for exactly the reasons we've both considered (and no doubt a heap more) Sid has consistently said that ILF and Formula fit is restricting radical new limb designs and the Hex7 ILF will be a compromise from the CH Hex7.
For what it's worth, I've seen vid of the CH being shot without a bracer at all. The torsional stiffness means the string moves less side to side so there's a huge advantage. The shorter BH shouldn't change that, but of course depending on your hand position and form, you may possibly tend to hit yourself more. I hit my arm about the same at all BH, just indifferent places, and that is entirely my fault every time!

Border's Hex6 have a list of approved risers - for straightness and how the limb sits safely in the pocket, so I see no reason why they wouldn't give a list for the Hex7, with factors such as deflex. I wouldn't expect that to happen until they are out of prototype phase - they've got a lot of testing to do first.

I'm sure Sid will come along at some point (I don't know where you are in the world but it is Saturday here and the workshop closes for the weekend) with some more technical answers.
 

BorderBows

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Greenring. Which riser do you have?
The problem with ilf is the variation in design requires a little bit of a compromise in limb design.
So far the guys shooting the covert hunter up to 70"long have managed to keep the bh at 7" or lower.
None have made any coment about arm strikes. (So far)

The limb design has a intended bh locatation on the limb and to achieve this both the risers deflex and preload need to be right.
Some of the heavy deflexed risers out there such as the fiberbow have more deflex than normal. But then have different limb pad angles to get the draw weight back at 28".

All of this changes the relationship of how the limb bends. Which changes what bh works.
The prototypes we have right now are being tweeked to work on the goldmedalist/gmx geometry. Which is also very very close to the w&w riser range. Since most of the short risers such as the DAS and tradtech risers are designed to work with W&W and samick limbs they are gmx compatable so to speak. So the ilf hex7 is working quite well at present. We have some minor tweeks to make and we think we will have a product. Prividing no supprises pop up from now till then
 

Flyingwatchmaker

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Border's Hex6 have a list of approved risers - for straightness and how the limb sits safely in the pocket, so I see no reason why they wouldn't give a list for the Hex7, with factors such as deflex. I wouldn't expect that to happen until they are out of prototype phase - they've got a lot of testing to do first.

Theres a list? Is the list of non-approved shorter than approved?

Tom
 

Timid Toad

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No, I believe it's about quality of manufacture and where the limb is designed to sit on the riser. All I've ever done is call up and say "I've got a ***** is that ok?" and been told yes. As I understand it, all the mainstream manufacturers are ok.
 

BorderBows

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Greenring. Your thinking about conventional limitations still with deflex reducing stored energy.(if ive read you right). If you look dedicated flightbows are not reflexed. They are deflexed.
We have made a bow with some of the biggest deflex values we have seen with unpresidented stored energy. So the two are playing together.

The reduced stored energy of the ilf hex7 over the covert hunter is because we dont have the capacity to change ilf geometry. Ilf has a different remit. That is to suit all the risers and suit a adjustment range.
The bolted is dedicated so you can optimise the limbs design.
The difference is that even the ilf hex7 still stores 7% more energy that the hex6bb2. That was on both a morrison 17" and a best zenit. Thats in comparison to the 10% gain bolted for bolted hex7 vs bb2 hex6
 

BorderBows

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Tom. Yes we do have risers that have proven not up to the task of keeping hex limbs in alignment.
Some are the cheaper end. And have rotational issues. And one expensive end of the market that we have not seen two alike. Utterly sub standard. In our opinion. If you have some hex limbs and are looking at a new riser. Just get intouch. Or if you have a riser and are looking to get some limbs again just ask and we can advise. We dont want to name and shame publically as the risers work with conventional limbs. Its our limbs ask more of the alignment.
 

Flyingwatchmaker

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Tom. Yes we do have risers that have proven not up to the task of keeping hex limbs in alignment.
Some are the cheaper end. And have rotational issues. And one expensive end of the market that we have not seen two alike. Utterly sub standard. In our opinion. If you have some hex limbs and are looking at a new riser. Just get intouch. Or if you have a riser and are looking to get some limbs again just ask and we can advise. We dont want to name and shame publically as the risers work with conventional limbs. Its our limbs ask more of the alignment.
Neato, good to know as I've been looking at changing my riser over, from a CXT to something that let's the limbs pivot where they're meant to and not on glued in aluminium plates! ... Top of my list are the Inno max, AXT, and the GPX... Ill have to hold off on more limbs for the moment, 2 sets of hex 6's are keeping me occupied for the moment ;-) steadily converting the locals to Border!

T
 

BorderBows

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They are all fine. Its some of the more exotic risers that are more questionable. But also some of the budget end of the trad ilf market.
 
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