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Thread: Under drawing hex 4,5,6 limbs.

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    It's an X BorderBows's Avatar
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    Under drawing hex 4,5,6 limbs.

    ok.
    Why is it bad to under draw Hex series limbs.

    If you have a conventional bow thats too long for your draw length, under drawing it is not a problem.

    With hex series limbs this can be a problem you didnt expect.

    Stack is when your limbs are gaining at a higher rate than average. so if your bow is 40lbs at 28" your bow will be gaining at say an average of 2lbs per inch.

    this gives a indication as to what you expect to pull for an easy life in that last inch as you come to anchor.

    here is the fun.
    If you pull a conventional bow back past its "usefull" draw length you will hit stack. Stack is when you are pulling 2.5lbs in that last inch. and if you look at the DFC graph you will see there the weight is gained. here is one of 2 conventional designs, and one of the hex series.


    now, what your looking for is the steepness of the line, the steeper it is, the harder it is to pull. so as you can see, the steepness of the line on a hex series limb at 26"-27" is steeper than the conventional designs, but for a 70" bow, your under pulling it. It was aimed at 29-32" so thats where you want the most level line.
    Conventional designs have the flatest point of the graph at 23-24" and this shows that at 26-27" your still running quite flat.
    With a hex series limb your still pulling though the power of preload at 23-24, so that the limb can deliver its smooth point at 28" and beyond.
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    In the Red Amateur Barbarian's Avatar
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    I think the smoothness curve shows it the best. This curve shows pounds/inch for each inch of the draw cycle. I have compared a couple of conventional limbs to HEX5 and HEX6. You can see how the minimum moves out to longer draw length with the HEX geometry. Sid's comments would be consistent with shooting at draw lengths past the minimum. The flattened point on the graph, that Sid refers to, is the bottom of the valley of the smoothness curve.


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    It's an X
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    Great graphs there! So are Sid's. Yours do accentuate the topic under discussion, make it easier to "see" what is happening.

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    It's an X EVC's Avatar
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    This smoothness thing is IMO BS. OK, let's not be that radical: it is extremely subjective as it is feeling related, thus dependent on the individual (and most certainly on the moment.)

    I am shooting GMX + W&W INNO EX Powers bow ATM and the feel as smooth as or even smoother than my GMX + HEX-V bow even though she is 2+lbs heavier (42.5 versus 40.5lbs) . DL 29.25" with the INNO and a tad longer with the HEX-V (no idea why). Both bows 70".

    It is worth to remember that when going through the clicker one is drawing say 1/8" or so. So we are talking about maybe 0.05lbs difference between the "smoother" and the not so "smoother" bot, out of forty something lbs DW. Does not seem such a significant difference to me.

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    It's an X JohnK's Avatar
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    EVC - If you were drawing those bows to the normal draw length expected for a 70in bow - say, for example, 31in - you may well notice more of a difference. Alternatively, if you had two 68in bows you might well see the same effect.

    If you could map a DFC for your bows I'm sure it would make interesting viewing

    I got very frustrated when I was asked to help an archer try some Border HEX-V limbs. I was told he needed 70in limbs, and Sid kindly sent them down to me to pass on. At the club he strung them up and started shooting them, but it became clear he wasn't drawing them far enough to open up the recurves. Turned out his draw length was just under 29in. He was comparing them against equivalent poundage (at 29in) W&W limbs - I think they were INNO EX Powers.

    I explained it wasn't a correct comparison, and that they'd need to drop the bracing height as well. I wasn't listened to. Next time I saw him he said he got the same sight marks at 70m with both limbs. I explained *again* that they needed to compare like-with-like, but he'd already made up his mind.
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    It's an X BorderBows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVC View Post
    This smoothness thing is IMO BS. OK, let's not be that radical: it is extremely subjective as it is feeling related, thus dependent on the individual (and most certainly on the moment.)

    I am shooting GMX + W&W INNO EX Powers bow ATM and the feel as smooth as or even smoother than my GMX + HEX-V bow even though she is 2+lbs heavier (42.5 versus 40.5lbs) . DL 29.25" with the INNO and a tad longer with the HEX-V (no idea why). Both bows 70".

    It is worth to remember that when going through the clicker one is drawing say 1/8" or so. So we are talking about maybe 0.05lbs difference between the "smoother" and the not so "smoother" bot, out of forty something lbs DW. Does not seem such a significant difference to me.
    im surprised that you keep comeing to the same opinion. People seem to find a difference between G3's and Innos. and thats less than half the difference between Innos and Hex5's.

    Smoothness is not subjective. There are Dozens of people that have commented on the Compound like letoff feeling that the hex limbs give during the draw. and so far your the only one that doesnt agree. We have found new dealers in Places like Japan because of this unique feeling, and Kamie should know what hes doing, he was an ex Yamaha Bow maker and was a member of the Japanese Oly team.
    弓のモデルチェンジのこと(3)

    kamie has now sold 100 pairs of hex5 and 6's into Japan for us.
    Considereing we dont speak Japanese im a little suprised, its doing so well if they are just the same as all the other limbs out there.

    Now the next fun aspec of this, if our limbs are just the same, i wonder why 30% of our production is going the US at present. our bows offer a unique feel, and people know it. Ask any European Bowyer how hard the US market is to be in or get into, and we are growing stringly. 8% 2 years ago and 30% 2 years later.

    It can be seen on a graph and seen on peoples faces. the first time they pull a Hex5 or 6 limb they generally have a little smile or double take just as they get to full draw.

    It does take the right draw length to achieve this feeling.
    Longer limbs dilute the feeling, but its there and its all proovable.

    Im only sorry that you dont feel what is there.
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