New to string making

albatross

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I am new to archery and I have just started making my own recurve bow strings and would like to ask a couple of questions.

I have a Hoyt Helix riser with long limbs giving a 70" bow. The Hoyt manual states that I should use a 67" string. I made one up using 8125 material 18 strand. I served the ends using diamondback serving thread and fitted it to the bow to test the brace height, it was only about 20cm (less than 8"). I had to make 40 twists to get a brace height of 30cm (9"). Is this too many twists? Should I use a shorter string length, say 66.5" and use fewer twists?

I have seen several posts about using monofilament fishing line for the centre serving. If used in the correct diameter is it suitable. Could I use a braided monofilament line instead (to get better wear resistance)?

And finally. When applying the centre serving with the string mounted on the bow. Do you twist the string to get the brace height and then apply the serving or leave it untwisted (as it come off the string jig)?

Thanks for your patience (I wish I had taken-up this sport years ago instead of just watching others doing it)!
 

EVC

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I had to make 40 twists to get a brace height of 30cm (9"). Is this too many twists? Should I use a shorter string length, say 66.5" and use fewer twists?
40 twists is just fine. According to BCY site (IIRC) something between 2 and 1 inches per twist is OK so you could have up to 60 twists without a problem. Just do not forget the string will creep a little so the BH will decrease. In my experience it decreases 1/2" before settling. I make my strings 3.5" shorter because of that.


I have seen several posts about using monofilament fishing line for the centre serving. If used in the correct diameter is it suitable. Could I use a braided monofilament line instead (to get better wear resistance)?
Can't help you on this. I use 1D or #3D for the ends and 62XS or Diamond for the center serving.

And finally. When applying the centre serving with the string mounted on the bow. Do you twist the string to get the brace height and then apply the serving or leave it untwisted (as it come off the string jig)?
I do it with no twists. And I do this way so that when I twist the serving gets tighter. Others do it with the string partially or fully twisted. YMMV. Just make sure you twist on the same direction as you wound the end and central servings.

HTH.

Elder.
 
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Rik

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"too many twists" is where the string curls up like a wounded snake every time you take it off the bow... You're probably looking at a bare minimum of 20-30 twists in a string.

I would normally try and adjust the length to the approx bracing height and stretch it in before applying the centre serving. Leave it strung for a few hours, or manually stretch it, then re-adjust the BH, before doing the centre serving. But then I also use Beiter nocking points, so I would be re-doing the serving while setting the nocking point, after shooting it in anyway.

I can't comment on mono, except to say that, personally, I wouldn't use it. Tricky to deal with, and no obvious advantages.
 

geoffretired

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I used monofilament years ago. It is very nice for the arrow nocks as you get clear feedback as to how they are fitting. Others I spoke to at that time said they found it hard on their fingers. Its main drawback,I feel, is that it goes without warning and you end up with a spiral spring on your string and no nocking point.
 

sight-pin

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Didn't know archers still used monofilament, same as Geoffretired for me in respect of using it a long time ago, i used it with 10 strands of dacron b50 and didn't have any trouble with it. dacron b50 is a thing of the past now though isn't it?
 

SimonW

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Monofilament centre servings were all the rage in the late 70's and 80's.

Fluo orange looked really nice :)

But, as noted above it came with three downsides:

1) if it broke, it unravelled completely in a second or so, so no opportunity to keep shooting the end and then change strings

2) it would wear (especially at the nock point) which meant that nock fit was variable over time

3) it was harsh on Kevlar strings, which tended to break at the nock point

when making a string with it, people tended to melt the end to stop it pulling through and unravelling. If you got this wrong, goodbye serving or sometimes even the string!!!!

To answer your question about twisting the string before serving, I always twist mine up to approx. 1cm" below intended bracing height.

I then leave the string on the bow overnight - to 'stretch'

I burnish the string - to get it as circular as possible.

Then I serve the centre serving, making sure I serve with the direction of string twist.

Have fun :)

Simon
 

albatross

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Another related question if I may. I am deaf and wear two hearing aids. I cannot hear high frequency or mid range noise. Yes it is a bummer but I have question about assessing brace height. As I cannot hear the noise the string makes. Does anyone have an alternative method of selecting the 'best' brace height? I am a RH archer and my right ear is completely duff to all but the loudest noises. How do I know when to start or stop shooting? I watch what the other archers are doing. If someone calls 'Fast'. The person next to me taps me on my shoulder.

Hoyt Helix 25" riser
8125 string material 67" long
Kaya K3 carbon foam limbs = 70" bow

Draw length is 29"

10 twists gives me a brace height of 8 1/4". Is this too low?
 

Rik

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Another related question if I may. I am deaf and wear two hearing aids. I cannot hear high frequency or mid range noise. Yes it is a bummer but I have question about assessing brace height. As I cannot hear the noise the string makes. Does anyone have an alternative method of selecting the 'best' brace height?
There's always paper plates...

Choose a starting BH, write it on the edge of a plate, then shoot at it until you've established a group size. Then do the same a few mm above and below the original BH. Compare the horizontal size of the groups on the plates. The smallest group is closest to the correct BH.

If you can't tell the difference, you may need to use a wider spacing of the BH above and below. You can chose a new starting BH and repeat, to narrow down on the best BH.
 

geoffretired

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I suppose this depends on what you see as best bracing height.
Rik says go for what gives you the smallest groups. Won't argue with that; if a change in BH can produce smaller groups that has to be good.
But, imagine that at the moment all you want to know is that the bow sounds about right. I would guess that anyone around you would be willing to listen to some shots and tell you that it sounds fine, or not. The chances are, if it sounds awful, there will be plenty of people who will let you know.( without being asked)heehee
 

Rik

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The thing is, the sound is kind of irrelevant... If it can be used as a way of reducing group sizes, sure. But otherwise?

If there's no intention of reducing group size, then it's probably just as easy to set it in the middle of the upper half of the BH range and leave it there.
 

geoffretired

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Hi Rik, yes indeed. Group size reduction is the objective in all sorts of aspects of tuning.
I just wondered if that was answering the question.Albatross was asking about the sound made, and I guess he had found out that some put a lot of credence in having a soft thrum and not a nasty crack. In practice, when archers first string their new bows and shoot them, usually the first comment from others is how nice they sound ( or not). If it sounds nasty most will be encouraged to try a different BH to get a nicer sound.
Shooting for groups at that stage, might result in anything but.
Some will adjust BH to get a better bare shaft match to their fletched arrows, if the match was reasonably close to start with.
I suppose that is an attempt to get smaller groups; thinking that a better match will give better results. I can see the thinking in that, too.
Some, go beyond that, as we know..... There is no harm in following that route, but I would say that time could be better spent working on form until it is good enough to allow the bare shaft tests to show realistic results when alterations are made.
For many average archers a change of BH can result in smaller groups. Next day, another change shows another improvement.The BH, however, may have gone back to where it had been!!!
 

albatross

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Thank you all for the interesting replies to my questions. And there was me thinking that archery would be a 'nice uncomplicated sport' to participate in! Still I am enjoying reading about and trying all the 'technical adjustment' suggestions to improve my results. I think part of my grouping problem may be that I have just upgraded from a 'cartel phantom' riser to a 'Hoyt Helix' riser that was offered to me at a very attractive price by another club member. I have only shot it 4 or 5 times and I am comparing the results against the cartel riser which I used for about 4 months. Maybe I am expecting too-much too-quickly. However. I will not give up trying for those 'elusive' gold 10's! Or maybe I am just 'consistently inconsistent'!
 

Mark31121

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Another related question if I may. I am deaf and wear two hearing aids. I cannot hear high frequency or mid range noise. Yes it is a bummer but I have question about assessing brace height. As I cannot hear the noise the string makes. Does anyone have an alternative method of selecting the 'best' brace height? I am a RH archer and my right ear is completely duff to all but the loudest noises. How do I know when to start or stop shooting? I watch what the other archers are doing. If someone calls 'Fast'. The person next to me taps me on my shoulder.

Hoyt Helix 25" riser
8125 string material 67" long
Kaya K3 carbon foam limbs = 70" bow

Draw length is 29"

10 twists gives me a brace height of 8 1/4". Is this too low?
I'm partially deaf myself, I can hear the commands etc but I really struggle to hear the bow unless I'm in a completly quiet room (which never happens). To set up the initial brace height I do it by feel rather than sound, which is hard with the helix as it does dampen the vibrations quite well - I have loosened a rod weight ever so slightly in the past to give me a bit of rattle to help.

In your case the brace height should be between 8 3/4 - 9 1/2 inches or 22 - 24 cm (so yes I would say 8 1/4 is a bit low). I start at the to lowest see how the shot feels (I ever so slightly rest my fingertip on the metal behind the grip to do this) and then twist the string until the shot feels smoother, the change can be quite dramatic, or only slight (which is where things get difficult). I then go slightly past this point with more twists to find the 'sweet range' as I call it.

From here I start back at the low point of this range and switch to Rik's paper plate method - although I use sheets of paper with targets printed on. It's quite time consuming but really worth it.

It's also important to keep an eye on your nocking point as it might move as you adjust the brace height.
 

albatross

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Mark31121. Thank you very much for this information. I have setup a target range (15m) in my back garden (with correct safety precautions). So as soon as I have typed this reply I will go and give your suggestions a try.

Thanks again.
 
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