Archery in Wolf Hall

Am doing a thing about the archery in Wolf Hall (this, if you don't know what it is).

Clip is here, shows Damien Lewis (as Henry VIII) and Mark Rylance (as Thomas Cromwell) shooting:

W Hall on Vimeo

I don't actually know a ton about longbows, but I'm guessing the actors have been taught by a recurver?
Is that a stand in for Damien Lewis?
What's with the target? Is that authentic Tudor?
Are the shooting bows real? They're usually elastic strings, aren't they?

Thoughts welcome!
 

bimble

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Ironman
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I am reminded of a drawing of someone who was a great longbower I saw on a different archery forum... one of those English gents who'd shoot a York round before breakfast... the drawing was of him at full draw and it was of a beautiful "recurve" form. Standing nice and straight, lovely 'T' shape, Mediterranean grip under his chin. But as Mark Rylance (Thomas Cromwell) isn't using an anchor that I'd expect if taught by a recurver, I am tempted to suggest not.

Looks like it could be him to me. I suspect actors fall into that group of people who are used to, and listen to, directions on how to do things properly, or at least so they appear to the viewer to be correct.

No idea.

Probably "real" bows, but at low enough poundage that non-archery people are able to draw and aim them easy enough as if they were archery people.
 

Matthames

New member
According to historical text and pictures of archery being practiced at that time, those targets look accurate enough. Archery was always practiced at butts that were mounds of earth on common ground.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I would say the bows are real, the limbs are bending. they won't be full weight warbows though, but I doubt they would have been used in this type of practice.

As for glove I wouldn't say. they may have used a glove rather than a tab, but then again they may have shot without any protection at all too. More physical lifestyle would have made the hands more calloused.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Ascham talks about shooting gloves, and drawing "to the right ear".
Now, granted, he was talking about an ideal form and enumerates a multitude of errors commonly seen, but still, Cromwell is supposed (in the story at least) to be competent.

The description of the guy who had to put a bracer on his face as he kept on scraping the skin off... that made me wince.
 

Butt Face

Member
Whilst not a longbow archer, it looks pretty good to me. They're not holding the draw and they look like proper longbow shooters have at least provided some instruction to the actors. Looks to me like the bow actually have a bit of weight to them too as you can see Damien Lewis and Mark Rylance getting a slight shake at full draw, so (purely guesswork) I'd think there could be at least 35-40 lbs on them.

Extensive Google-Fu has turned up nothing definite, but I did find mention on a historyextra.com search result of possible involvement from the Mary Rose Trust and Purbrook Bowmen.

Now Purbrook Bowmen are a historical archery 'display team' so could well have had all the skills and equipment to advise on making the archery in Wolf Hall look decent. Purbrook Bowmen have previously worked with The Mary Rose Trust, Portsmouth Museums Trust, English Heritage and The Royal Armouries so I think it very plausible that they were involved, especially if The Mary Rose Trust whom they've worked with before were involved in Wolf Hall.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/purbrookbowmen/team_frame.htm (n.b. I couldn't get the web page to load in anything but IE)

I can't find any Weapon Master or Armourer credits, so maybe Purbrook Bowmen provided it all?
 
Extensive Google-Fu has turned up nothing definite, but I did find mention on a historyextra.com search result of possible involvement from the Mary Rose Trust and Purbrook Bowmen.

Now Purbrook Bowmen are a historical archery 'display team' so could well have had all the skills and equipment to advise on making the archery in Wolf Hall look decent. Purbrook Bowmen have previously worked with The Mary Rose Trust, Portsmouth Museums Trust, English Heritage and The Royal Armouries so I think it very plausible that they were involved, especially if The Mary Rose Trust whom they've worked with before were involved in Wolf Hall.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/purbrookbowmen/team_frame.htm (n.b. I couldn't get the web page to load in anything but IE)

I can't find any Weapon Master or Armourer credits, so maybe Purbrook Bowmen provided it all?
Cheers for that. I got it to load in Chrome - thankfully. I mean, I've done some dumb stuff to try and write stories on the blog, but frankly, using I.E. is just a Step. Too. Far. Not going there.

Anyway, I put it up. Cheers everybody!

Archery - good archery - The Infinite Curve

Looks like there might be some more longbow action in this series, too.
 

DarkMuppet

Member
The wife and I have been watching Wolf Hall and have been enjoying it. However I should not have pointed out that Mark Rylance (Thomas Cromwell) is also the voice of Flop from the CBeebies cartoon Bing. everytime she now watches it with our daughter, she's half expecting Flop to start swearing! :D

 

Butt Face

Member
I forgot to mention about Damien Lewis in the first few seconds pictured warming the bow up - which supports that somebody on the crew had knowledge...

As for Bing, this is exactly why I can't take Derek Jacoby seriously any more. In The Night Garden has ruined weighty historical drama for me :(
 

napolienne

Active member
Fonz Awardee
Pretty sure someone involved read Ascham. The production researcher is a friend of mine and the level of detail the producers wanted from her was incredible.
 

Yew Selfbow

Active member
Pretty sure someone involved read Ascham. The production researcher is a friend of mine and the level of detail the producers wanted from her was incredible.
napolienne tell your friend she's done a terrific job and should be congratulated. Some of the costume detail is pretty incredible, Henry's square toed boots are superb as are the knives and leatherwork.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Hey when you get a group of archers watching a TV depiction, and all they end up talking about is "is that period?" you know you've pretty much nailed it...

Joss Whedon pretty much tagged it in Buffy, when the eponymous heroine was watching a martial arts film and piped up " You so could not do that from a standing start"...
Physicists, watching Sci-Fi. Anyone in IT watching Hollywood's latest attempt a getting a clue about computers...
 

albatross

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
The thing I noticed about the clip (I don't watch the programme). Is the really 'closed' stance of the archers. Is that the correct stance for a longbow archer?
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Whilst not a longbow archer, it looks pretty good to me. They're not holding the draw and they look like proper longbow shooters have at least provided some instruction to the actors. Looks to me like the bow actually have a bit of weight to them too as you can see Damien Lewis and Mark Rylance getting a slight shake at full draw, so (purely guesswork) I'd think there could be at least 35-40 lbs on them.

Extensive Google-Fu has turned up nothing definite, but I did find mention on a historyextra.com search result of possible involvement from the Mary Rose Trust and Purbrook Bowmen.

Now Purbrook Bowmen are a historical archery 'display team' so could well have had all the skills and equipment to advise on making the archery in Wolf Hall look decent. Purbrook Bowmen have previously worked with The Mary Rose Trust, Portsmouth Museums Trust, English Heritage and The Royal Armouries so I think it very plausible that they were involved, especially if The Mary Rose Trust whom they've worked with before were involved in Wolf Hall.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/purbrookbowmen/team_frame.htm (n.b. I couldn't get the web page to load in anything but IE)

I can't find any Weapon Master or Armourer credits, so maybe Purbrook Bowmen provided it all?
Sorry to knock you back, but Purbrook Bowmen weren't involved in this at all. I know this as I ran the group.

I need to get around to updating the website, we're in semi-retirement. Since I got more involved in competitive shooting, I've not had the time to devote to the display team. We still will do work if people come to us, but the last thing we did was the opening of the new Mary Rose museum. We may be doing a couple of events for The Mary Rose Trust and something for the Royal Armouries this year, but nothing is certain. (I ought to get around to updating the website.)
 

Butt Face

Member
Sorry to knock you back, but Purbrook Bowmen weren't involved in this at all. I know this as I ran the group.

I need to get around to updating the website, we're in semi-retirement. Since I got more involved in competitive shooting, I've not had the time to devote to the display team. We still will do work if people come to us, but the last thing we did was the opening of the new Mary Rose museum. We may be doing a couple of events for The Mary Rose Trust and something for the Royal Armouries this year, but nothing is certain. (I ought to get around to updating the website.)
Good to hear from the horses mouth. History Extra (the official website of BBC history magazine apparently) kept throwing up a search result mentioning Wolf Hall and The Mary Rose Trust and Purbrook Archers (sic) I couldn't resolve it to a specific article with a definite quote though.

I had searched all manner of google permutations and trawled many pages of film and TV sites, and that was the only potential lead that cropped up. I do find it quite odd that there is no mention of anyone in the props or costumes or other departments credited that had a role of advisor, weaponmaster, armourer, anything that could have led to what resources were used by the production.

As a person who knows longbows and the community, does it look like somebody knowledgeable was involved? Any ideas?
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Someone knowledgeable was obviously involved, but you can't necessarilly discount the archers. Maybe one of them shoots.
After all... think Robert Hardy !
I was recently contacted by a well known actor who wanted me to make him a longbow... mind he was a 'no show' ... on the day in question he got called back in for filming dwahing
Del
 
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