Carotid Artery

D

Deleted member 946

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With archery involving a lot of repetition of a slightly unnatural head and neck position, I wonder if there is any potential for affecting carotid arteries. I have done a bit of searching and found an old medical article about someone who stuck his thumb into the artery and caused various eye problems while he was shooting but can't find anything relating to long term changes due to head & neck position.

Does anyone know of research or reports into this issue?
 

Timid Toad

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Anecdotally speaking, we tend to get more issues with neck vertebrae and discs. Never come across an archer with blood vessel issues in the neck.
Why do you ask?
 
D

Deleted member 946

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Anecdotally speaking, we tend to get more issues with neck vertebrae and discs. Never come across an archer with blood vessel issues in the neck.
Why do you ask?
I am trying to find out if arterial stenosis can be caused or exacerbated by the archery draw position and, if so, what steps can be taken to reduce the effects.
 

fbirder

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I cant think of any reason why archery (or any sport - except, maybe, darts in the 'gold old days') should increase atherosclerosis and the build up of plaque inside the carotid (or, indeed, any) artery.
 

mediumtab

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Never read any in depth items on the effect of the constant head turning, and its effect. Like all repition,if its done for long enough over a long time,there must be some compression effect on blood flow and wear on the neck vertibrae - but I don't think there is any tested proof of this anywhere.
If you enjoy your shooting,then these effects are but aside,and you tend to forget about such things. I have found an effect on the hands after twenty years shooting,with arthritis at the bottom on the thumbs.This is no doubt caused by pressure into the one hand,and reference of the thumb under the chin with the other.....
 
D

Deleted member 946

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(or any sport - except, maybe, darts in the 'good old days')
Nice one! I was more wondering whether plaque build up can be triggered by local external constriction, perhaps by the SCM. If it is not something which is known about, perhaps I don't need to go any further down that route.

At a beginners course I was watching someone who had previously been told to jam his thumb into his neck. I was quite alarmed to see the way his artery started to stand out and pulse so I stopped him doing it. I then started to think a bit more about what could be happening in that area and the other side of the neck with the interaction of muscles and arteries and whether there could be something harmful going on.
 

Munsterman

Active member
.. there's nothing "going on"
Not quite. I recall a senior coach sharing an anecdote about a lady on a county squad emulating the style popularised by eastern Europeans & Frangilli, and passing out as she held at full draw. I don't know much more about the "incident" but I recall the wider topic of the "thumb in neck" anchor being raised at the WA coaching some years ago, where it was stated that you should be careful where you "stick it".
 

fbirder

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Not quite. I recall a senior coach sharing an anecdote about a lady on a county squad emulating the style popularised by eastern Europeans & Frangilli, and passing out as she held at full draw. I don't know much more about the "incident" but I recall the wider topic of the "thumb in neck" anchor being raised at the WA coaching some years ago, where it was stated that you should be careful where you "stick it".
That sounds like carotid sinus syndrome. Some people can experience drastic changes to heart rate and blood pressure if their carotid sinus (at the base of the carotid artery) is pressed. It can lead to fainting.
 

grndkntrl

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So long as you're not trying to do a Vulcan Neck Pinch on yourself while at full draw, I don't think there's going to be an issue!
 

Johnfm

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There is no issue whatsoever. The neck is designed to move, rotate, flex etc and a person sticking their thumb in their neck is nothing to the concerned about. An archery shooting posture is well within the limits that the neck is capable of. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be doing it.
 

little-else

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the carotid artery is a very large blood vessel and very difficult to restrict the flow of blood entirely in it. Yes, people ca faint when you compress it very hard but it normally requires someone to bet breathless via exercise to get the heartbeat going and oxygen restricted alrady before external pressure has any effect.

I had an op last year that required poking the operating tools in one of my femoral arteries. When the surgeon removed the kit he and a nurse were applying pressure to the artery at both the incision and indirect pressure in my groin but blood still spurt3ed out and hit the ceiling of the operating theatre. that is a lot of blood and a lot of pressure to battle with and a normal skeletal/muscle loading that archery is wont be stopping that blood going where it wants to go. Wehn you rob your brain of oxyge the sight is the first thing to suffer, dont know why, just one of those self protection things from caveman times I expect so people may feel that they are going to faint when it is just the normal early shut down procedure that stops you from continuing from doing the stupid thing that you are doing from causing damage. same as shivering is a very early warning signal for hypothermia.
 

fbirder

Member
Not *caused* by archery though.
No, carotid sinus syndrome isn't caused by archery.

However, it can explain, perfectly, the incident described in Munsterman's post:

Not quite. I recall a senior coach sharing an anecdote about a lady on a county squad emulating the style popularised by eastern Europeans & Frangilli, and passing out as she held at full draw. I don't know much more about the "incident" but I recall the wider topic of the "thumb in neck" anchor being raised at the WA coaching some years ago, where it was stated that you should be careful where you "stick it".
A friend of mine has this problem. Just light pressure in the right place on his neck causes his blood pressure to plummet and that makes him feel faint.
 

Johnfm

New member
If you have carotid sinus syndrome then you don't need a lot of pressure to show an effect. Light pressure, from ordinary massage or even turning the head can cause some people faint - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1397187/pdf/annsurg00352-0057.pdf
The thing with this though is that it is very rare, you cannot make everyone faint by sticking fingers in necks, and usually presents with prodromal symptoms (warning signs) so the individual should not be shooting anyway as they would be aware of feeling unwell.

Wehn you rob your brain of oxyge the sight is the first thing to suffer, dont know why, just one of those self protection things from caveman times I expect so people may feel that they are going to faint when it is just the normal early shut down procedure that stops you from continuing from doing the stupid thing that you are doing from causing damage. same as shivering is a very early warning signal for hypothermia.
Without wishing to split the atom, when you induce hypoxia, which is the reduction of oxygen, there are a whole host of symptoms well before the sight goes, which is usually just before the point of unconsciousness. Symptoms usually include shortness of breath, deep breathing using the shoulder muscles, a feeling of dizziness, numbness, yawning, a feeling of euphoria, inability to perform simple tasks and mental processes such as following simple instructions. Eventually the eyesight is affected usually just before unconsciousness.

I worked in Aviation Medicine for four years, teaching aircrew how to recognise and deal with hypoxia; it was fascinating work.

Having said that this is wholly different to a syncope (an episode that produces unconsciousness - pronounced sinkopee) as above that showed she stimulated some nerves in her neck to drop her blood pressure.
 
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