The danger of over doing it

Marcus37

New member
This week I have learned a valuable lesson.

When people say ?to get good you need to shoot a lot of arrows?, there is a limit and that is your conditioning.

Sunday just gone the 3 of us in my little group had the field to our self as most of our club are hiding indoors, and as it?s not that could yet we are sticking it out as long as possible before we join them.

Because of this we were able to spread out and shoot at our own pace, from which I shot about 200 arrows, at the end of it I felt fine.
However when I came to shoot yesterday I was a mess, the draw weight felt Twice as heavy as it is, I could not steady my am and my anchor felt wrong even though it was the same as always, I hit my bracer a lot and had zero consistency.

It really made the scratch my head, as after checking my bow all was as it should be that end, I went so far as re waxing my string. I just could not work out why.

Today I spoke to Nicky Hunt via Facebook as until recently she was our club president, for some advice, after explaining everything she thinks it?s Down to fatigue as I shot 75% - 100% more arrows than normal so I need to slow down and take it easy until I next shoot and during.

Lesson learned, next time I?ll take more brakes and shoot a bit less when my shoot days will be close together, and I can shoot at my own pace.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
I think it sounds like fatigue too.

You've probably done the archery equivalent of running a half marathon when previously you only did a 5k park run and now you are feeling the pain. Even the archers shooting the magical 200-300 arrows a day worked up to that figure and I have seen a number of interviews where, following a layoff or injury recovery, saw archers engaging in a staged return to build up their muscle strength and stamina.

Take things easy for the next few sessions and shoot some short rounds and you should soon be back to normal.




Karl
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Just remembering the first fencing tournament I went to, in college...
I was tired at the end of the day - expected. What I didn't expect was to struggle with walking up steps the next morning! I mean I'd only done about 3 or 4 times more than I'd usually do in a day... :bang:
 

WinBase

Member
Theres a tendency when you go to the golf range to just 'ball bash' after a while and not concentrate on something to work on, which is exactly what can happen at archery (i dont know what the archery equivalent of ball bashing is lol but you get the idea). its better to have more shorter intensive spells working on things to improve, but archery is so addictive you think 'just another end' and before you know it your arms are hanging off. having said that, getting used to shooting a lot of arrows can help conditioning if you intend to shoot FITA's and Yorks, or to just enjoy a long day, so i reckon that when you recognise your performance is dipping and you start to feel tired it's time to stop for the day
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Not the same but it has parallels - once I realised I was naturally quite a good runner and cyclists, I trained my butt off in my mid 30s. Every day sometimes even twice a day; the results got better but... I then completely broke my immune system and was almost constantly ill for a year.

So while I still train hard, I have a day on day off policy. In running and weights you learn that rest time is actually as important as the exercise itself and with archery you are doing a repetitive, muscle heavy motion; no rest time is going to equal problems. Even in my short archery time, I can feel I've pushed it a bit far a few times.

My fastest runs are usually after a spell of doing something else.
 

Marcus37

New member
Meany good points raised here.

Yes it is very easy to say ?just one more end? and that?s pretty much what I did, much like when I was cycling and said just one more lap.

As we had the whole field to ourselves we could just shoot and collect as we was very spaced out on the field so it was safe to do so, which ended up with me shooting much more than if I had to follow the rules and wait until everybody was done, which slows down the pace a lot and I end shooting less per session which in hindsight is a good thing.

kernowlad, I?ve been there when I was cycling, I?ve seen the lights more than once at the end of a race and ended up ill afterwards, it?s a easy trap to fall into. Pushing your body to its limits can feel good when the endorphins are flowing but it can also be bad for you.

I think I will start focusing on an element of my form each time like what has been advised here, starting with my anchor and release, as I have a habit of over drawing and screwing up my release, which in its self harms my consistency. As I?m not useing a clicker it?s very easy to do, so I think I?ll add a clicker soon, even just to help avoid the above problem.

I?m at the range this afternoon, just the 3 of us again, I will be taking it easy, more tea brakes, and just focus on my form rather than the ?shoot a lot to get good? philosophy I have used, I think 60 arrows ish should be enough.

The problem is everything I have been told or read reinforces that mind set so it was a very easy trap to fall into.

I?ll let you all know how it went when I get back.
 

Marcus37

New member
Ok I just got back and am sipping a cuppa as I write this.

Today was much better, I was not alineing the string in the same place each time until I realised it, but that is a form lapse rather than being tired etc, best of all no string slaps 😄

I shot my normal 100 arrows and only had about 8 very bad shots, a some wobbly ones but that?s normal for me :D
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Fatigue can be a key component of form lapses... One of the arguments for overdoing it, every now and again, is to learn how to maintain form (or at least cope with the lapses) under fatigue conditions...
A similar argument can be made for shooting in lousy weather conditions (though I can't claim to be in the "hey, the weather's awful! Great! Let's get some bad weather practice in..." enthusiast group :) )
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I remember deliberately shooting in the rain when I was trying for MB. It was good to learn how the shooting changes when wearing wet weather gear, for example. Wet bow hand, and tab, and string. Shooting 12 dozen was a must. It all seemed like a challenge worth accepting, all those years ago.
These days getting the cams wet is not something I fancy; so for the bow's sake I shoot in nice weather.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I remember deliberately shooting in the rain when I was trying for MB. It was good to learn how the shooting changes when wearing wet weather gear, for example. Wet bow hand, and tab, and string. Shooting 12 dozen was a must. It all seemed like a challenge worth accepting, all those years ago.
These days getting the cams wet is not something I fancy; so for the bow's sake I shoot in nice weather.
 

Marcus37

New member
I don?t mind a little dusty drizzle but real rain is a no no for me, more so for my dad as he suffers from chest problem so it?s very bad for him.

I think the reason my form can be a bit wobbly in some aspects of it is that I?m still quite new to recurve, there is less to think about when I was shooting compound so I?m still learning the new things I have not had to worry about before.

I just have to check string alignment every time I draw as it?s not ingrained in memory/ muscle memory yet, it?s one of them things that if I don?t think about is easy to forget.

My release is getting better, so that?s one battle half won.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
We shot in heavy rain a while back - weirdly I got a PB that still stands (and it was actually not bad) but I completely trashed my arrows, my sight was a mess and it knackered my wrist release. So while I'll run, cycle and surf in any weather, archery is for good(ish) weather only for me.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
We shot in heavy rain a while back - weirdly I got a PB that still stands (and it was actually not bad) but I completely trashed my arrows, my sight was a mess and it knackered my wrist release. So while I'll run, cycle and surf in any weather, archery is for good(ish) weather only for me.
Wet weather I find, can make you concentrate more, if a nice day you could get complacent, one of my PBs was set on a two way shoot, because I was having to re set each end because the whether in effect was a mirror of what it was the previous end.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
We shot in heavy rain a while back - weirdly I got a PB that still stands (and it was actually not bad) but I completely trashed my arrows, my sight was a mess and it knackered my wrist release. So while I'll run, cycle and surf in any weather, archery is for good(ish) weather only for me.
Wet weather I find, can make you concentrate more, if a nice day you could get complacent, one of my PBs was set on a two way shoot, because I was having to re set each end because the whether in effect was a mirror of what it was the previous end.
 

deadb0y

New member
Treat out of the ordinary archery session like weight training and you can't go far wrong. You must wait until your muscles have recovered before you shoot again. It's the same with anything that requires muscle use, even shoveling snow :)
 

Marcus37

New member
Treat out of the ordinary archery session like weight training and you can't go far wrong. You must wait until your muscles have recovered before you shoot again. It's the same with anything that requires muscle use, even shoveling snow :)
Yes, and I should have remembered that, but when my dad and wife say let?s go shoot, it?s very hard to resist.
 

Senlac

Supporter
Supporter
So, you shot 200 compared with 100-120 normally - and you were knackered next day. Not a surprise.
There is of course the fabled "1000/week" benchmark - for professional archers no doubt. But how did they do it? I guess it's not too difficult - if it's your job: shoot 100 in the morning, in ends of (say) 15 our so. That will take about 90 minutes. Do other stuff, then shoot another 100 in the afternoon. Do the same M-F and that's 1000 done. Simples.
Of course, professional archers vary a lot. I recall the answers given by the top archers on the stand at the W&W Seminar (Quicks, 17-Nov-16):
- Patrick Huston: 300-500/week + lots of reversals etc.
- Ku Bon-chan: 300-400/day, except Sunday
- Larry Godfrey: when in peak form 3,500-4,000/month [160-180/day if weekdays only], with 50% blank boss in winter
- Naomi Folkard: 250/day in winter, 150-200/day in competition season [which suggests she's well aware of the effects of muscle fatigue, and choses to force herself for a few months over winter will build muscle, then retain it over the summer....]
 

Mistake

New member
Ironman
So, you shot 200 compared with 100-120 normally - and you were knackered next day. Not a surprise.
There is of course the fabled "1000/week" benchmark - for professional archers no doubt. But how did they do it? I guess it's not too difficult - if it's your job: shoot 100 in the morning, in ends of (say) 15 our so. That will take about 90 minutes.
I got 108 shot this morning before showering and going to work in just over an hour in ends of 9, and I had to get my boss from my car and into the gym first. (Luckily the guy who runs the local gym is a club member so is letting me keep the boss there for 5m shooting first thing in the morning when it's quiet)

- Naomi Folkard: 250/day in winter, 150-200/day in competition season [which suggests she's well aware of the effects of muscle fatigue, and choses to force herself for a few months over winter will build muscle, then retain it over the summer....]
A lot of fitness people do this as well; I'll be working very hard over the winter shooting and fitness wise because I want to hit the ground running in field next March and also because I want to do some more Tough Mudder events next year so I'll be having to schedule in quite a bit of down time from the gym
 

Marcus37

New member
So, you shot 200 compared with 100-120 normally - and you were knackered next day. Not a surprise.
There is of course the fabled "1000/week" benchmark - for professional archers no doubt. But how did they do it? I guess it's not too difficult - if it's your job: shoot 100 in the morning, in ends of (say) 15 our so. That will take about 90 minutes. Do other stuff, then shoot another 100 in the afternoon. Do the same M-F and that's 1000 done. Simples.
Of course, professional archers vary a lot. I recall the answers given by the top archers on the stand at the W&W Seminar (Quicks, 17-Nov-16):
- Patrick Huston: 300-500/week + lots of reversals etc.
- Ku Bon-chan: 300-400/day, except Sunday
- Larry Godfrey: when in peak form 3,500-4,000/month [160-180/day if weekdays only], with 50% blank boss in winter
- Naomi Folkard: 250/day in winter, 150-200/day in competition season [which suggests she's well aware of the effects of muscle fatigue, and choses to force herself for a few months over winter will build muscle, then retain it over the summer....]
Over winter I will be shooting less arrows, once I go inside as our time at the venue is far more limited than at our out door ware we can shoot any time we want. so while indoor I will be working on my form etc as other than that 18m holds little challenge, unless I try recurve 3 spots, but I?m no we?re near that accurate yet with recurve.

It?s also very easy to think you are better than you are indoor, due to the short distance.
 

Mistake

New member
Ironman
It’s also very easy to think you are better than you are indoor, due to the short distance.
I actually have the complete opposite, I find it a challenge to keep my confidence up during the indoor season because the targets are so close.

Take a Portsmouth face, in field you're shooting that size target out to 45m and I know I should be staying in the 4 ring for 95% of my shots, so I expect basically all tens indoors on that size face, so it sucks mentally when you don't do that
 
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