Extending 252 badge scheme

Kickaha

New member
I have just got our club started on the 252 badge scheme which looks like being a great hit.

At the moment we are limited to shooting at a max of 30 yards and I was trying to think of a way of keeping it engaging for everyone.

I came up with the idea of a 252+ scheme, where you need to score 252 or better (with adjustments for bowstyles) but on an 80cm face. There are various reasons why I think this would be a good idea but would like the forums opinion.

So over to you guys and gals, what say you - good or bad idea.
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
We use 252 out to 100 yds for recurve. It helps beginners moving up in distances and stops them trying to progress too far too fast.
 

ashooper

New member
if you are limited to just 30 yards decreasing the size of the face will replicate a longer distance and provide the extra challenge you are looking for. If I cannot shoot at a longer distance I have been known to place a worcester face on a shorter distance...

That certainly will increase focus :D
 

Kickaha

New member
I may have given the wrong idea, we will be able to shoot all the way out to 100 yards fairly soon so we can continue with the normal 252.

My thought was that having another level to the 252 would provide a challenge for archers who are proficient out to 50 metres (for example) but are unable to shoot at longer distances due to strength/health considerations. It seems to me that there are a lot of older archers who can score well at the shorter distances but cannot shoot the longer distances as they can no longer manage the poundage of limbs that are needed. They are then stuck in a sort of limbo, their form is fine and scoring at the shorter distances is good but there is a lack of challenge to them.
 

urbin

Member
I think the smaller faces would work really well. You could do 252 Bronze (on a full 80cm face), silver (on a full 60cm face) and even gold (40cm face for the ones who really like a challenge)?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

Bertybobby

New member
Once Archers have done 252 out to 40 yards, why not just wean them into the proper rounds in their shorter versions and get them going for their 3rd and 2nd Class?
 

GoneBad

Member
Seems quite a few clubs, including mine, use this system

The Rules

Imperial, five-zone scoring on a 122cm target face.
Six sighters to be followed immediately by three dozen scored arrows.
The three dozen arrows may be shot alone or as the first three dozen of a longer Imperial round.
Awards must be claimed in sequence. You can’t for example claim a black badge until you have a white one.
The 10 yards “Green” badge is for juniors only and is optional.
Scores need to be achieved twice to qualify for the award.
Qualifying scores for a given distance for the same bow type must be shot on different days.
Qualifying scores for a given distance for different bow types may be shot on the same day.
Qualifying scores for different distances may be shot on the same day provided the shortest distance is shot first and then longer distances are shot in award order.
To make an award claim, two signed, dated and witnessed score sheets need to be submitted to the club’s Records Officer.



DISTANCE AWARD RECURVE COMPOUND LONGBOW BAREBOW
10 Green 252 280 164 189
20 White 252 280 164 189
30 Black 252 280 164 189
40 Blue 252 280 164 189
50 Red 252 280 164 189
60 Bronze 252 280 164 189
80 Silver 252 280 126 164
100 Gold 252 280 101 139


Dave's gerbils won't let me edit in the correct spaces :raspberry
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Seems quite a few clubs, including mine, use this system

The Rules

Imperial, five-zone scoring on a 122cm target face.
Six sighters to be followed immediately by three dozen scored arrows.
The three dozen arrows may be shot alone or as the first three dozen of a longer Imperial round.
Awards must be claimed in sequence. You can’t for example claim a black badge until you have a white one.
The 10 yards “Green” badge is for juniors only and is optional.
Scores need to be achieved twice to qualify for the award.
Qualifying scores for a given distance for the same bow type must be shot on different days.
Qualifying scores for a given distance for different bow types may be shot on the same day.
Qualifying scores for different distances may be shot on the same day provided the shortest distance is shot first and then longer distances are shot in award order.
To make an award claim, two signed, dated and witnessed score sheets need to be submitted to the club’s Records Officer.



DISTANCE AWARD RECURVE COMPOUND LONGBOW BAREBOW
10 Green 252 280 164 189
20 White 252 280 164 189
30 Black 252 280 164 189
40 Blue 252 280 164 189
50 Red 252 280 164 189
60 Bronze 252 280 164 189
80 Silver 252 280 126 164
100 Gold 252 280 101 139


Dave's gerbils won't let me edit in the correct spaces :raspberry
Out of interest, why can't you claim badges out of sequence? Clout Tassels, English Crosses, English roses, Classifications allow you to claim higher badges without having to claim lower ones.
 

Kickaha

New member
Once Archers have done 252 out to 40 yards, why not just wean them into the proper rounds in their shorter versions and get them going for their 3rd and 2nd Class?
Two reasons

1) For some reason they find the 252 idea appealing and have no interest in the classification scheme - possibly due to point 2.
2) At the shorter distances they can only get 2nd class, which is much too easy for some of them.

I thought that by reducing the face size it would challenge them at their maximum distances and give focus to their archery.

On that subject, does anyone know why AGB require you to shoot rounds at the maximum distance for your category for bowman and above?
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Two reasons

1) For some reason they find the 252 idea appealing and have no interest in the classification scheme - possibly due to point 2.
2) At the shorter distances they can only get 2nd class, which is much too easy for some of them.

I thought that by reducing the face size it would challenge them at their maximum distances and give focus to their archery.

On that subject, does anyone know why AGB require you to shoot rounds at the maximum distance for your category for bowman and above?
Probably because the further you move the target away the lower your accuracy is, so you have to maintain a more consistent angle and release. For Mb and GMB you will notice that the only two rounds you can achieve these are for 12 dozen rounds. So as well as having to be more accurate you have to have endurance as well.
 

Kickaha

New member
Probably because the further you move the target away the lower your accuracy is, so you have to maintain a more consistent angle and release. For Mb and GMB you will notice that the only two rounds you can achieve these are for 12 dozen rounds. So as well as having to be more accurate you have to have endurance as well.
I appreciate the reply but I was asking does anyone KNOW the reasoning. For accuracy, 60 yards on a 80cm face is pretty close to 100 yards on a full face.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I appreciate the reply but I was asking does anyone KNOW the reasoning. For accuracy, 60 yards on a 80cm face is pretty close to 100 yards on a full face.
That maybe true for the purpose of target size, but not entirely true as you are shooting further the weather would have much more of an effect on the arrow.
I doubt anyone really knows, if you want a comparison you could still get the handicap of a GMB level at shorter range, you just couldn't claim the badge.
 

Bertybobby

New member
Two reasons

1) For some reason they find the 252 idea appealing and have no interest in the classification scheme - possibly due to point 2.
2) At the shorter distances they can only get 2nd class, which is much too easy for some of them.

I thought that by reducing the face size it would challenge them at their maximum distances and give focus to their archery.

On that subject, does anyone know why AGB require you to shoot rounds at the maximum distance for your category for bowman and above?
I'd also say that if you could get MB and GMB at shorter distances next to nobody would shoot past 50m / 70m again and the York / Hereford and WA1440 rounds would die a death.

It certainly is testing out at 100 yards / 90m!!
 

Bertybobby

New member
On that subject, does anyone know why AGB require you to shoot rounds at the maximum distance for your category for bowman and above?
I think we know...

It's historical and never been changed. The York was the first standardised round and has been the "flagship" round of GNAS ever since. So if you are to become a Grand Master Bowman, etc, you are expected to master the longest and most difficult round.

It's now debateable about difficulty given rounds, distances, face sizes, modern competition bows and arrows - but the historical basis of the MB and GMB has never been changed. With the introduction of WA1440 being not far off the longest York distance that has since been permitted.

http://www.bow-international.com/features/traditional/the-first-york/
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
and just to carry on with the historical... ever wonder why the 122cm face is 122cm and not 120cm or 1m?? It used to be a four foot face, which is 121.92cm... so when we're shooting our long metric rounds, we're still shooting an imperial sized face!
 

Bertybobby

New member
and just to carry on with the historical... ever wonder why the 122cm face is 122cm and not 120cm or 1m?? It used to be a four foot face, which is 121.92cm... so when we're shooting our long metric rounds, we're still shooting an imperial sized face!
And the reason the centre of the target is 4' 3" off the ground is that that is the average height of a Frenchman's heart!! ;o)
 

Kickaha

New member
And the reason the centre of the target is 4' 3" off the ground is that that is the average height of a Frenchman's heart!! ;o)
I like that, true or not.

The reasoning for the odd number scoring is also clever. It is based on the fact that the 1 zone is 9 times the area of the 9 zone.
 

GoneBad

Member
Out of interest, why can't you claim badges out of sequence? Clout Tassels, English Crosses, English roses, Classifications allow you to claim higher badges without having to claim lower ones.
I guess it is to prevent beginners getting ahead of themselves and spraying arrows into the green all day in an effort to get the gold badge first. The 252 is, after all, aimed at beginners whereas the others are more for experienced archers
 
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