Initial Handicap

JOKer

Member
Supporter
Ironman
The Green Book 3(a) says that 3 rounds have to be shot to gain an initial handicap. Am I correct in thinking that these rounds do not have to be shot in the same year? I am the records officer for my club and we have some recurve archers who shoot longbow once a year in our longbow shoot. After 3 years of 1 round per year can I now award them a longbow handicap?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think the handicap lasts for a year so three scores to start you off and at the end of each year you start where you left off the previous year and continue the process.The process, I think , is that a higher score allows you to lower your current handicap, but higher scores are ignored.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I'm pretty sure that they have to be in the same year. Though isn't there something saying if you've not shot enough rounds it's worked out on the rounds you have shot?
 

JOKer

Member
Supporter
Ironman
The guidance is (fairly) clear for what to do at year end when someone has a handicap but hasn't shot 3 rounds in the current year but I feel does not cover getting an initial handicap.
Geoff you seem to imply they don't have to be in the same year as until you have shot 3 rounds you don't have a handicap whereas Raven is saying initial 3 need to be in the same year.
I use Golden Records and they go with the 3 in the same year.
Any other views?
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
3 in the same year
Disagree -
At year end - para 5(b) states "if an archer has shot fewer than 3 rounds the average will be taken over those rounds shot plus reassessed rating for the previous year
and (d) An archer who fails to shoot any complete round during the previous year shall retain his last declared handicap

Therefore, if said longbowman shoots just 1 round in 2017, at the end of the year, he is reassessed on the 1 round he has shot. If he shoots 1 round in 2018 that is better than that in 2017, his hc will improve. At the end of 2018, his handicap would be reassessed on the average h/c of the 1 round shot in 2018 and the reassessment from 2017.

Finally, if they only shoot 1 round a year, who cares? Presumably, the one round they're shooting is the handicap competition anyway, which to me, makes use of a handicap under those circumstances slightly doubtful

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3 in the same year
Disagree -
At year end - para 5(b) states "if an archer has shot fewer than 3 rounds the average will be taken over those rounds shot plus reassessed rating for the previous year
and (d) An archer who fails to shoot any complete round during the previous year shall retain his last declared handicap

Therefore, if said longbowman shoots just 1 round in 2017, at the end of the year, he is reassessed on the 1 round he has shot. If he shoots 1 round in 2018 that is better than that in 2017, his hc will improve. At the end of 2018, his handicap would be reassessed on the average h/c of the 1 round shot in 2018 and the reassessment from 2017.

Finally, if they only shoot 1 round a year, who cares? Presumably, the one round they're shooting is the handicap competition anyway, which to me, makes use of a handicap under those circumstances slightly doubtful
 

fbirder

Member
Disagree -
At year end - para 5(b) states "if an archer has shot fewer than 3 rounds the average will be taken over those rounds shot plus reassessed rating for the previous year
That only applies if an archer had a handicap assigned the previous year.

If an archer has never had a handicap then they must shoot three qualifying rounds in one calendar year.
 

JOKer

Member
Supporter
Ironman
But 5 reads that it assumes the archer already has a handicap, but they won't till they have shot 3 rounds. Which leads back to, do all 3 need to be in the same year?
To note, the round they are shooting each year is not a handicap competition but they could decide to shoot longbow in another handicap tournament.

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But 5 reads that it assumes the archer already has a handicap, but they won't till they have shot 3 rounds. Which leads back to, do all 3 need to be in the same year?
To note, the round they are shooting each year is not a handicap competition but they could decide to shoot longbow in another handicap tournament.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
At year end - para 5(b) states "if an archer has shot fewer than 3 rounds the average will be taken over those rounds shot plus reassessed rating for the previous year
and (d) An archer who fails to shoot any complete round during the previous year shall retain his last declared handicap
Hi Ben,
It seems to me that (b) could translate into an expectation that in the previous year a handicap had been sorted.
(d) seems to mean that shooting no rounds in a year simply means the archer uses the previous year's handicap.
Both seem to me to hinge on an expectation that a handicap had been reached in the year before the issue arises.
Or put another way, it doesn't seem to cover an archer who hasn't shot enough rounds to have a handicap.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
My understanding was that handicap was awarded shoot by shoot, classification required 3 shoots. Have things changed?
Handicap is continuously re-assessed once you've got one. You get one through shooting three rounds or (my understanding) through end of year assessment.
So the one round shot each year, would determine the following year starting handicap. You can't carry the previous year's round forwards.

But, if they only shoot *one round* per year, total, then the handicap is kind of irrelevant, surely?
 

fbirder

Member
OK. It seems that it's unclear (surprise!).

AGB Shooting Administration Procedures. Target Archery Handicap Scheme/

3. Initial Assessment
(i) A beginner or an archer not in possession of a handicap will be eligible to to receive a handicap after shooting three complete rounds. The handicap awarded will be equal to the average rating of the three rounds. If the average handicap rating is not a whole number it will be rounded up to the next larger whole number. If any of the rounds so shot do not qualify for the handicap as shown in Tables 5 - 12, the archer will be given a handicap of 100 which he will hold until it improves.

There is no mention at all of the three rounds having to be in the same calendar year.

However, handicaps need to be re-assessed at the start of each calendar year. So an archer that had only shot two rounds in 2017 would not be able to be allocated a rating according to rule 5 - the average of the two rounds shot plus the (non-existent) re-assessed handicap rating for the previous year.

We insist on three qualifying scores in a single calendar year.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
The process isn't really designed for someone shooting so seldom.
So in practical terms, I would probably just make an arbitrary decision, and apply it consistently:
Start them at 100 and reassess each year, start from the first recorded singleton and reassess each year, declare that they won't have a handicap until they shoot 3 rounds in one year.
Which approach is chosen won't really matter, so long as it's applied consistently.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
Just get the blighters to shoot 3 rounds in a year. They dont need to be world record status or anything. Just declare a few Sundays as "club target days" and get them to score a round.
I still dont get why the OP is so bothered about handicaps for archers who score rounds so infrequently :(

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Just get the blighters to shoot 3 rounds in a year. They dont need to be world record status or anything. Just declare a few Sundays as "club target days" and get them to score a round.
I still dont get why the OP is so bothered about handicaps for archers who score rounds so infrequently :(
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Or let them just shoot and not bother with handicaps. They don't seem to be that interested in shooting rounds; perhaps they just like shooting for its own sake or as an excuse for getting out in the fresh air. They may not even bother about scoring.
It is their archery.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
The process isn't really designed for someone shooting so seldom.
So in practical terms, I would probably just make an arbitrary decision, and apply it consistently:
Start them at 100 and reassess each year, start from the first recorded singleton and reassess each year, declare that they won't have a handicap until they shoot 3 rounds in one year.
Which approach is chosen won't really matter, so long as it's applied consistently.
Though, if their club longbow shoot is a handicapped shoot (I know a lot of my club's shoots are), giving them a handicap of 100, when chances are their actual handicap is a lot better, would be an unfair advantage
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Though, if their club longbow shoot is a handicapped shoot (I know a lot of my club's shoots are), giving them a handicap of 100, when chances are their actual handicap is a lot better, would be an unfair advantage
That's why you'd do it through reassessment. After averaging out a few years of single results, you'd have something more reasonable.
 

fbirder

Member
Though, if their club longbow shoot is a handicapped shoot (I know a lot of my club's shoots are), giving them a handicap of 100, when chances are their actual handicap is a lot better, would be an unfair advantage
Yup. So I wouldn't give them a handicap at all.

if they want a handicap it shouldn't be too hard to shoot three shorter rounds in the weeks preceding the competition.
 
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