Irresponsible sales - a threat to the sport ??

Corax67

Well-known member
Got into work at 6am today to be greeted by one of my colleagues desperate to show me his weekend purchases - in a large duffle bag were a pair of compound bows & a large collection of colourful arrows.

He had attended a local military show and among the traders was one stall selling a large variety of clothing, knives and bows - he had bought a Barnett Banshee jr and a Barnett 'lil banshee junior for his sons. He paid ?35 for the pair !!! and a stack of fibreglass arrows at ?5 for 3, paper targets came with the bows too.

He said he had been really surprised that the knives had been in locked cabinets with large 'proof if age' notices on them but he hadn't been asked a single question or given any usage guidance. A lot of people had been buying these bows as well as the pistol crossbows and larger crossbows which were also on sale. He thinks the pistol crossbow was being sold for as little as a tenner !

I know they are relatively low powered bows compared to what we shoot but even so my worry is how long it will be before the first article appears about an accident involving a child, property damage, pets or wildlife injured/killed and how long after that the authorities look to bring in legislation restricting sales or affecting our clubs operations.

It didn't take much to get airguns and airsoft guns seriously restricted - might this be the way our spot is heading if such irresponsible behaviour continues ?


Karl
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
It does seem a concern that bows can be handed over so readily, esp compound bows. A colleague at work bought his son a 60lb compound bow off ebay and luckily his garden has steel sheds as the arrow went through the steel wall up to the fletchings. Yes you can get the little children's bows at fairs and re-enactments etc, but what people don't seem to realise is that these are weapons designed for killing. Ok yes our target points aren't going to cause the damage a broad head could but it'll still cause damage.

Crossbows though I thought did have age restrictions on selling them, as they are easier to use than any other bow types. I know there are laws concerning carrying crossbows in public.

Though I hate to say it, perhaps some form of restrictions in the sales of bows should be put in place.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Unfortunately, there are already consequences for this sort of behaviour.

I was at a farmhouse B&B at the end of July up in the North of England. The landlady (and her neighbour) told me it was quite common for their husbands to find injured sheep with crossbow bolts stuck in them.

I appreciate this is only anecdotal evidence, but I believe there are inevitable consequences to unregulated selling of archery equipment online. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't had any significantly high profile incidents. It's only a matter of time.
 

ThomVis

Active member
Go to ebay.com (not .co.uk) and search "pistol crossbow" and watch the junk fill your screen. Any dealer can buy this stuff cheap and sell it to the uneducated consumers caught by flashy advertising or genuine remote interest. Jelly (no-cross) bows like geologic and the sorts for me fall under the same category. Human decency and hazard-awareness usually kicks in the when the thought "this might not be entirely safe" crosses their minds. But occasionally the buzz or thrill-seeking is too high and bolts/arrow end up in places they should not. We had cats, swans and ducks with bolts in them a while back. Sigh.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
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every few months there's a story on the bbc website about a swan, duck, cat, etc, that's been shot with a crossbow bolt. The chances are every case is one where it's some yobbo who's bought something cheap off ebay or from one of these stalls. Of course, the only way to stop such sales would be to make the sale of archery equipment (at least the arrows/bows) regulated.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Must admit I'm fearful of the day we need a licence for a bow:(.
I'm old school and when I was a kid you could walk around with a bow and arrow or simple crossbow you'd made yourself for several reasons.
1. In a village, people knew who you were or at least the policeman could soon track you down...
2. Making stuff yourself is to some extent self regulating... you don't have the skill to make anything too powerful when you are 10. (Ok it could still kill in theory, but my bows at that age prob had a max range of 50 yards).
I hate to say it but I think the same regulations that apply to crossbows should apply to compounds because they can store more energy.
Maybe even apply the same restrictions to anything that isn't wood or bamboo.
After all a modern recurve of just 35# can throw an arrow a huge distance. And youngsters just don't get the concept of overshoot and if you can't see what's beyond the target you shouldn't shoot.
A good ticking off from my Dad and a smack in the mouth from another kid soon taught me about safety before I made anything too powerful :).

Or maybe we are over reacting to something that is still very much a minority interest?
After all, Dad got got 'em for the kids... but can we assume Dad knows about bow? ... errr that would be a 'No' :(

Del
 

Timid Toad

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Ironman
I used to rail against licencing our sport, but as more and more irresponsible stupidity goes on, I'm coming round to the idea that perhaps we need some regulation.
With the advent of the internet anyone can buy just about anything online and use it. Technology and materials have increased speeds and efficiency as well as kit becoming cheaper.

It would serve to protect the responsible archer, and might weed out the impulse buyers. As we stand something bad *will* happen, and then we are likely to be hit with much more severe restrictions.
 

whiz

New member
The same thing happens in Australia. I expect that it happens everywhere in the world. It's not like the UK and Australia have a monopoly on idiots.
As far as I can tell, there isn't a country on earth that has yet enacted legislation to regulate archery specifically.
There are a few countries that managed to include bows and arrows in their general legislation to cover all missile firing devices, but not one that has specifically gone out to look for them specifically.

There can be some expectations drawn from this, as bows have been around for longer than legislation existed.

1. Nobody cares that much.
2. It's too difficult to enact legislation to cover a stick and a bit of string
3. Nobody cares that much.

There is one place that you will find massive amounts of people who care about bows being licensed/restricted/banned/controlled etc.

Theses places are internet archery forums.

Few people are involved with the technicalities of drafting enforceable legislation to cover such things and the problems encountered with the inevitable licensing schemes that would have to be developed and started.

I'm one of the few.

I can't escape that kind of crap and after being exposed to it for 11 years, I'd suggest that until someone manages to accomplish with a bow, all that which has been done of late with firearms, you've got not much to worry about.

If only we could make being a ######## illegal, all our problems would be solved.

Encourage the sterilisation of morons.

While I think of it, can you take Tony Abbott back please?
 

ThomVis

Active member
I hate to say it but I think the same regulations that apply to crossbows should apply to compounds because they can store more energy.
Maybe even apply the same restrictions to anything that isn't wood or bamboo.
Say what? So a 150lb warbow is alright because it's made of wood, but anything modern should be subject to regulation. I don't like your preaching.
 

Timid Toad

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Say what? So a 150lb warbow is alright because it's made of wood, but anything modern should be subject to regulation. I don't like your preaching.
Your average idiot is only going to hurt himself with a 150lb longbow. Not so with a crossbow, pistol crossbow or kid's compound.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Say what? So a 150lb warbow is alright because it's made of wood, but anything modern should be subject to regulation. I don't like your preaching.
The thing I said about self regulating also applies to draw weight. No little kid will be able to draw 150#, by the time they are strong enough to draw say 80# they should be sensible enough to use it.
A modern 35# recurve can probably shoot further than a 150# longbow.
I find your term "preaching" highly objectionable.
In the post I did say "maybe", I don't think that is "preaching". Also the thread is seeking opinions (the clue is the question mark in the title), and that is what I was proffering.
Please feel free to express your opinions, whilst leaving me free to express mine.

While I'm at it... there are plenty of laws governing offensive weapons, public nuisance, behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace etc.
New laws probably aren't necessary in terms of registration or licencing, but maybe an age limit on purchasing such things would be a good idea.

Del :(
 

whiz

New member
I hate to say it but I think the same regulations that apply to crossbows should apply to compounds because they can store more energy.
Let's see you wander off and leave that compound loaded for your inquisitive toddler to examine.

There are reasons why bows are not included in the same description as crossbows.

It requires more skill and strength to use when loaded, can't be left loaded and can't go off while being cleaned.

Crossbows can be left cocked and lethal for decades. (They're also favoured for drug house booby traps in some areas.) It takes very little effort to fire them once they're loaded.

If you want a hint of over reaction, just bring this topic up on any archery forum. People go nuts.

And nothing happens.

The world moved on from seeing bows and arrows as lethal death dealing weapons decades ago. Nobody important cares.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
I have read several instances of release aids being used with compounds "going off".
Any one who leaves a crossbows cocked is an idiot, anyone who leaves it cocked and loaded doubly so.
Crossbows have always had a bad press and always will have. People have been trying to ban them since about the 12th century.
I think there are two main issues.
1. The age at which people can buy these things (plus price/availability).
2. The power to age ratio. E.G how much power can a kid be expected to wield safely.
I'm not anti crossbow, compound or modern materials. But I'm making the point they all allow more speed and power to the projectile than may be healthy for little Johnny's neighbours.

The stupid names that manufacturers give their products doesn't help...
Del
 

fbirder

Member
The world moved on from seeing bows and arrows as lethal death dealing weapons decades ago. Nobody important cares.
Until the first little kiddie gets killed in an accident.

There is legislation in place to restrict ownership and usage of crossbows. With other forms of archery, surely education is better than legislation. That's why I reckon it's a good idea to nag home learners into attending a proper beginner's course.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
I wonder, do the specialist archery retailers we all love ask for any proof of club membership, completion of beginners course etc?
or do they hand over equipment to anyone with the cash?

You can buy archery equipment off the shelf in a small but growing number of run of the mill sports and home and leisure stores.
 

Munsterman

Active member
I wonder, do the specialist archery retailers we all love ask for any proof of club membership, completion of beginners course etc?
or do they hand over equipment to anyone with the cash?

You can buy archery equipment off the shelf in a small but growing number of run of the mill sports and home and leisure stores.
Some may, but I have witnessed a young lad (probably no older than 13/14) enter a well established archery retailer with his equally young mates and no responsible adult in sight and buy a load of crossbow bolts. The counter assistant asked what he used them for and the lad was quite open about losing the bolts when shooting at rabbits etc. in his local park. I asked the assistant if they felt it was right to supply these to a minor who so readily admitted to using the crossbow in a public park and against local wildlife. The retailer was equally honest in their response - they have a business to run and it was not their job to make such calls.
 

backinblack

Active member
What about repeating crossbows Del? :raspberry


I have read several instances of release aids being used with compounds "going off".
Any one who leaves a crossbows cocked is an idiot, anyone who leaves it cocked and loaded doubly so.
Crossbows have always had a bad press and always will have. People have been trying to ban them since about the 12th century.
I think there are two main issues.
1. The age at which people can buy these things (plus price/availability).
2. The power to age ratio. E.G how much power can a kid be expected to wield safely.
I'm not anti crossbow, compound or modern materials. But I'm making the point they all allow more speed and power to the projectile than may be healthy for little Johnny's neighbours.

The stupid names that manufacturers give their products doesn't help...
Del
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Let's see you wander off and leave that compound loaded for your inquisitive toddler to examine.
Er, well, you could.... Just not with equipment which is readily available in the UK. That sort of thing (gadget for holding a bow "ready to go") is hunting equipment in the US.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
What about repeating crossbows Del? :raspberry
You can't cock a repeating crossbow... it can be left loaded but not cocked*. :raspberry: ;)
(Well at least that applies to the original Chinese design. :) )
Del
*To clarify, the magazine holds about 10 bolts. As the lever pulls back to full draw it automatically shoots, there is no cocked position where you could let go of the device.
 
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