Are other clubs seeing a lot of people deferring membership at the moment?

pipeski

Member
This is the first year that the six-monthly pro rata system for AGB membership has been in force. Where previously, new members would only pay a modest fee to join in July/August/September, they're now being asked to cough up half a year's fees. Added to this, our county and region (Notts/EMAS) didn't previously collect any fees for the last three months, reducing the cost further; now they do, because they'd be losing six months of fees from every new member, something I'd imagine they can't really afford.

Have other clubs found that people are now deferring membership for several months and waiting until October to join?

Our club has a couple of ex AGB members looking to come back to archery, and a number of new archers fresh off beginner's courses we've run over the summer (we have another course ending this week). Almost without exception, these people are choosing to wait until October to pay fees and join the club. My feeling is that a number of these will be lost to us between now and the new archery year.

I've moved the payment deadline this year, in the hope that I can get those people to pay next year's fees well in advance, which is one way to ensure they come back. But we've never had this problem before. In the past, I used to suggest that people didn't join in September, unless they felt very flush. Now it seems like joining any time from July onwards is a bit of a rip-off.

I'd be interested to hear whether other clubs are having any issues around this area, and how they're dealing with them.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
our county and region (Notts/EMAS) didn't previously collect any fees for the last three months, reducing the cost further; now they do, because they'd be losing six months of fees from every new member, something I'd imagine they can't really afford.
But thats a loss of money that they never had, and, if new members put it off, possibly never will get.
I always thought that the old GNAS method of paying the following years subs if you were a new member joining after May, pay for 12 months get upto 18 months, was a great way to hook new members. They got a full year's membership fees up front, but the new member didnt get slammed for another huge wedge of cash 3 months later.

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our county and region (Notts/EMAS) didn't previously collect any fees for the last three months, reducing the cost further; now they do, because they'd be losing six months of fees from every new member, something I'd imagine they can't really afford.
But thats a loss of money that they never had, and, if new members put it off, possibly never will get.
I always thought that the old GNAS method of paying the following years subs if you were a new member joining after May, pay for 12 months get upto 18 months, was a great way to hook new members. They got a full year's membership fees up front, but the new member didnt get slammed for another huge wedge of cash 3 months later.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I was always under the impression that counties and regions weren't exactly cash-strapped, although that may vary from place to place.
 

pipeski

Member
To try to steer this thread back on course, could I add that I'm not particularly concerned about the impact on county or regional finances? I was asking about new members holding off on joining clubs.
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
not had any problem with new members but a few old hands have not rejoined at the start of the year but are making noises about paying the 6 months rate later on. You could understand this if an injury put them hors de combat for that time but when it is more than 1 person you think it is a trend
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
not had any problem with new members but a few old hands have not rejoined at the start of the year but are making noises about paying the 6 months rate later on. You could understand this if an injury put them hors de combat for that time but when it is more than 1 person you think it is a trend
Surely the 6 month rate only applies to new members, or members whose membership has defaulted for over a year. An existing member who doesnt pay in October, by May their membership is over due but they still owe the full year.
 

pipeski

Member
Ben, I just realised that you brought this issue up almost exactly a year ago. As you say, the six month rate only applies to new members, or those with more than 12 months' membership lapse. That's another double-edged sword. You can end up in a situation where someone has to give up archery temporarily (because of an injury, or because they're working abroad for six months, or whatever). They come back the following summer, and you have to hit them up for a full year's fees for the sake of a couple of months' shooting. Seems odd to penalise people in this way, but there you go.

One way I can think of that AGB could remedy this problem would be to offer a pay-monthly direct membership, maybe at 150% the monthly cost of annual membership. That would allow members joining or rejoining in the last few months of the year to get back into the sport immediately, without the annoyance of paying way over the odds. OK, without the county and regional subs, they'd have to wait until October to shoot in competitions, but that's no big deal. And they could then shoot at the club at our guest rate. We'd be insured, they'd be able to come and shoot, and AGB would get some cash. Everyone wins.

I worry that some clubs may try to slip in new members in 'under the radar' in the late summer, letting them shoot uninsured on the understanding that they'll back-date the membership should they need to cover themselves. After all, you only have to issue a paper slip...
 

vinniebleakley

New member
I found all this really odd? In Australia you join a club you pay 12months upfront and you membership starts the day you join. A month before it expires you get an email that it's time.e to renew. It's all done via a automatic database system. About a fortnight after you join a welcome letter and membership card comes in the mail. The management system disperses the fund where they need to go. Some to Archery Australia, some to the state body and some to the club. Very efficient and easy to maintain

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
At my club, we pay a monthly fee, part of which will go towards AGB fees. We do get people delaying joining as usually after a course they have to save up to get equipment (though we do lend some out), but because we set up standing orders with members, the monthly fee comes out and they don't have to find the full AGB fee when the date comes as it's already in the club funds.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Raven's_Eye, that sounds like a nice way to do things. Can I just check on something, though?
If a new archer starts in July ,for example, their monthly input won't cover what they owe in October to AGB etc. Does that mean the club pays that out of the funds already collected from everyone from previous payments?
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Yep, we have seen the same issue with people deciding not to join in July / August and wait till the start of the next AGB year as they do not want to pay 6months worth of fees for 2 months shooting....
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Surely the 6 month rate only applies to new members, or members whose membership has defaulted for over a year. An existing member who doesnt pay in October, by May their membership is over due but they still owe the full year.
Our financial/membership year doesnt coincide with the AGB year and I'm sure that is the same for many clubs. I am not sure how this dilemma will be dealt with as that is really a problem for the memsec and treasurer but as I report, more than one lapsed member has sought to return at a reduced rate for the year and that has created problems with our returns to AGB for membership details and correct subs. It also causes problems with making projections for future years finances and has reined in spending on consumable items like bosses, target faces etc If it was one person with a bad shoulder it wouldnt have nay real effect but it is more than half a dozen people who are umming and aahing and havent paid up yet. ( they are no longer officially members but we wouildnt like them to just wander off or give up)
o
 

backinblack

Active member
I found all this really odd? In Australia you join a club you pay 12months upfront and you membership starts the day you join. A month before it expires you get an email that it's time.e to renew. It's all done via a automatic database system. About a fortnight after you join a welcome letter and membership card comes in the mail. The management system disperses the fund where they need to go. Some to Archery Australia, some to the state body and some to the club. Very efficient and easy to maintain

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Surely that's too sensible and simple to really work?

- - - Updated - - -

I found all this really odd? In Australia you join a club you pay 12months upfront and you membership starts the day you join. A month before it expires you get an email that it's time.e to renew. It's all done via a automatic database system. About a fortnight after you join a welcome letter and membership card comes in the mail. The management system disperses the fund where they need to go. Some to Archery Australia, some to the state body and some to the club. Very efficient and easy to maintain

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Surely that's too sensible and simple to really work?
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
Our financial/membership year doesnt coincide with the AGB year and I'm sure that is the same for many clubs. I am not sure how this dilemma will be dealt with as that is really a problem for the memsec and treasurer but as I report, more than one lapsed member has sought to return at a reduced rate for the year and that has created problems with our returns to AGB for membership details and correct subs. It also causes problems with making projections for future years finances and has reined in spending on consumable items like bosses, target faces etc If it was one person with a bad shoulder it wouldnt have nay real effect but it is more than half a dozen people who are umming and aahing and havent paid up yet. ( they are no longer officially members but we wouildnt like them to just wander off or give up)
o
Thing is... why not?? Ours are due in July, mostly to give the Secretary the time to hunt down everyone and get money off them in time to send it off to AGB Towers ready for the AGB year.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
Ben, I just realised that you brought this issue up almost exactly a year ago. As you say, the six month rate only applies to new members, or those with more than 12 months' membership lapse. That's another double-edged sword. You can end up in a situation where someone has to give up archery temporarily (because of an injury, or because they're working abroad for six months, or whatever). They come back the following summer, and you have to hit them up for a full year's fees for the sake of a couple of months' shooting. Seems odd to penalise people in this way, but there you go.
.
[edit]
Sorry Vinnie from Australia, I hadnt got as far as your post when I replied to pipesky
[/edit/

The person should have paid up when the subs were due. Otherwise you could have people who only want to shoot during the summer, paying half subs year after year and that would never do, would it.

I dont understand why AGB doesnt go to rolling years, so if you join on June 14th, you have 1 years membership that expires June 13th the next year. There would be no October panic trying to get everyone's membership in and card back out. Membership renewals could (with a bit of working) be spread around the year
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Raven's_Eye, that sounds like a nice way to do things. Can I just check on something, though?
If a new archer starts in July ,for example, their monthly input won't cover what they owe in October to AGB etc. Does that mean the club pays that out of the funds already collected from everyone from previous payments?
There is a joining fee of (I think) ?45, which will cover most of the AGB fee for that year. When it's time to renew in October the new membership will be paid from funds already collected by the club. I suppose in the short view the club is out of pocket a bit but in the long run we get it back.

We run our beginners course in the winter season so the majority of people joining are in winter, so by the time October rolls round again we have enough put aside.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
So the joining fee gets things started and the monthly fees after that means they pay the right amount during the year. The club gets their share and AGB gets theirs when the time comes. It sounds like a good system. I am wondering how easy it was to set up in the first place. How would a treasurer feel if they were asked to start that system, having been used to collecting money once a year? I am thinking that (possibly) setting it up might put off a treasurer who thinks it's easier to just leave things as they are.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
So the joining fee gets things started and the monthly fees after that means they pay the right amount during the year. The club gets their share and AGB gets theirs when the time comes. It sounds like a good system. I am wondering how easy it was to set up in the first place. How would a treasurer feel if they were asked to start that system, having been used to collecting money once a year? I am thinking that (possibly) setting it up might put off a treasurer who thinks it's easier to just leave things as they are.
I'd guess that the real trick here is to collect fees automatically by standing order, direct debit or something.
Any treasurer would be likely to have a heart attack if asked to chase people monthly for fees.
A club that I was a member of quite a few years ago, charged ?3 a week. Pocket money, until you've missed a few weeks and you get an irate treasurer saying "you owe us ?20"

- - - Updated - - -

So the joining fee gets things started and the monthly fees after that means they pay the right amount during the year. The club gets their share and AGB gets theirs when the time comes. It sounds like a good system. I am wondering how easy it was to set up in the first place. How would a treasurer feel if they were asked to start that system, having been used to collecting money once a year? I am thinking that (possibly) setting it up might put off a treasurer who thinks it's easier to just leave things as they are.
I'd guess that the real trick here is to collect fees automatically by standing order, direct debit or something.
Any treasurer would be likely to have a heart attack if asked to chase people monthly for fees.
A club that I was a member of quite a few years ago, charged ?3 a week. Pocket money, until you've missed a few weeks and you get an irate treasurer saying "you owe us ?20"
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Heehee, my mistake. By "setting up" I was imagining direct debits or standing orders.
I wonder how easy that is to set up. I know it only needs doing once in large numbers and then one or two more after a beginners course; but the work might be too much to persuade treasurers to adopt that system in the first place.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
The initial setup, would probably take some doing but as a member I'd rather be paying a monthly fee by standing order then all of a sudden I've got to find all the fees in one go.
 
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