Preferencial Target Selection

spdixon

New member
Preferential Target Selection

How many top archers find themselves placed in superior positions on the shooting line. Is this Coincidence, Luck, Act of God, Early entry.

Perhaps organisers out there can enlighten me. It happens year in year out.
 
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Munsterman

Active member
Success brings its benefits. I don't see too many top sprinters being given the lesser lanes at the track or top runners being dispersed in the pack at the London marathon. its not a uniquely archery issue.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
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Can't say I've ever noticed it at any shoot I've been to. What would be considered a preferential position?
 

spdixon

New member
Its actually Cheating!!!

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KC: A wind free protected by trees, Ring any bells to anyone.
 

Shirt

Well-known member
Q: Logically, as a tournament organiser, what do you want?
A: A full (and therefore profitable) shoot.

What drives a full (and profitable) shoot?
Lots of people entering.
Why do people enter?
Because it's a shoot where they think they can score well. (Other factors such as bacon sandwiches/close to home/etc may apply but are lesser factors)
Why do they think they can score well?
Because some big scores have been shot at that tournament previously.
Why will they go back even if they don't do well this year?
Because probably, someone (possibly a 'big name') has done well and proved it can be done.

So it's in the TO's interest to have people shoot big scores. Now, if you have a field with a slightly more sheltered bit (Andover Ladies end, for e.g.) it makes sense to put the best archers there so they can shoot some big scores, which will attract more people, and so you get a full shoot.
 
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the-poet

Guest
I don't know of any fields where one target could be deemed "better" than any other.

It's worth noting that I have extensive experience with designing and planting shelter belts, what may be seen by some as a benefit may in fact be nothing more than rumour or myth.

I can't see anything in rules to suggest foul play on either the part of the archer or T.O. in any of the circumstances not provided.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.
 

KidCurry

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Now, if you have a field with a slightly more sheltered bit (Andover Ladies end, for e.g.) it makes sense to put the best archers there so they can shoot some big scores, which will attract more people, and so you get a full shoot.
Looking at the Andover field it is aligned SW/NE. As the prevailing wind is from the SW, technically they have an ideal field. I would prefer to be on the targets far left but it would only be an advantage if the wind is from the W/NW. Anything thing else I would prefer to be out in the middle so I can watch the wind gusts ripple through the target flags.
 

bimble

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The gents compound end of the Middlesex fita is considerably more sheltered than the entire ladies field... it is on straw bosses though, plus four compounders per target.

I don't know of any fields where one target could be deemed "better" than any other.
in swimming those with the faster times get the better lanes, likewise on the athletics track, the slower runners are put on the out/inside lanes. It's still the same track/pool
 
Surely it would only be viewed as cheating if an archer requested a specific position.
For me, the sausage/bacon buttie stall would definitely be a favoured place!!(don't tell my wife!)
Chris
 

chuffalump

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How are there better lanes in swimming or on the athletics track? Hmmm, maybe the edge lanes in a pool are slower due to turbulence? Running tracks though?
 

bimble

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if you're running the 200/400 and have to run the bends in your lanes, 1/2 are very tight, 7/8 you have no idea how you're doing in the race because everyone is behind you until the last quarter
 

bimble

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yes, though interestingly, even in the races without bends (100m/110m hurdles) it's still a case that the fastest runners are put in the middle... go figure! ;)
 

spdixon

New member
The-Poet: 1. No sour grapes as I do not shoot competitively any more. 2. You obviously are very accomplished as a shelter designer but you obviously are not
into competitive archery. Go to the Cheshire Championships and ask the ladies about being disadvantaged. 3. This pre-selection for the top archers has been going
on for years and it has to stop. Nothing in the rules, its about a level playing field for ALL. Why on earth these so called top archer want this advantage is beyond me.
They should MAN up for fair play
 

spdixon

New member
Bimble: Faster times - better lanes, I have no problem with that. Everyone knows what to expect and what they must do to get a better lane. Maybe the Tournament organisers
should announce that the higher qualifying archers will be given the best positions ie wind protected on the entry forms. But that can't be right can it for as the well qualified The poet has
already informed us all target positions are equal.
 
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the-poet

Guest
So when you say cheating you really don't mean cheating do you.

How often have the women at the Cheshire champs shot on the mens line for comparison?

I've heard archers complain about how it's only windy on their detail never mind target.
Notice how the top archers are on a target with no whining.
It's no coincidence.
 

spdixon

New member
the-poet. How often have the women at the Cheshire champs shot on the mens line for comparison? What kind of nonsense is that, a ridiculous statement. This isn't about windy on different details it about wind free ends of fields. If you say they don't exist then they don't because your an expert. This is not about whining, its about fair play. I don't care who wins and who loses. everyone should have the same chance.
 
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the-poet

Guest
How can anybody claim any target is less windy without shooting somewhere else on the same field on the same day for comparrison.

How can a T.O. know the wind speed and direction on the day of the shoot weeks in advance to enable any bias when drawing up target lists.

You talk about nonsense?
You don't need my assistance on that front.
 

bimble

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Surely that's making the assumption that they're asking for it... If the TO sorts the target list out and decides to put the elite on targets that are generally more sheltered than others, hoping that big scores will be shot at their shoot, blaming the archers does seems a bit like sour grapes (whether you shoot competitively or not).

3. This pre-selection for the top archers has been going
on for years and it has to stop. Nothing in the rules, its about a level playing field for ALL. Why on earth these so called top archer want this advantage is beyond me.
They should MAN up for fair play
 
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