Instinctive Shooting

MikeD

New member
How do you learn to shoot instinctively? I know the theory of look at the target, draw the bow and loose. However, I've seen people that can do that and hit the target too!

I think I want get rid of sights, clickers (particularly clickers :thumbsdow ), stabilisers and all that junk.

I understand string walking to some extent but, unless I've got the wrong end of a bent stick, NFAS styles do not permit string walking. Just instinctive or sights. I'll also be shooting GNAS/FITA but that is very much in it's infancy in Scotland, so I would want to shoot NFAS too.

Mike
 

Field Archer

Well-known member
Mike, you are allowed stringwalk in NFAS, but it would put you in to the Freestyle clase.

Another example, I shot in the Scottish champs a few weeks ago, one archer shoots Barebow, but he chooses to use a clicker and happily shoots in Freestyle.
 

TJ Mason

Soaring
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
Learning to shoot instinctively is very much like learning to throw a ball. No sights or distance markings, but with practice you can get pretty accurate.

It's entirely a matter of practice. As you develop, you'll become better able to size up the distance and drop, and your muscle memory will develop so that you can angle yourself correctly.
 

Macbow

New member
There are a couple of good books - the one I'd recommend is Instinctive Archery Insights (Revised Edition) by Jay Kidwell. If you read that first then any other system can be accommodated (Howard Hill, Byron Ferguson, Asbell etc). Rick Welch's instructional video Volume 2 is incredible but for competitive reasons I cannot shoot 3 under.
My personal view of "instinctive" shooting is to get a system that works and practice until it becomes instinctive. I like to shoot at moving targets and while I'm not consciously aiming my brain is definitely making calculations based on familiar sight pictures/gap distances/arrow trajectory - in other words it is using the same aiming systems that I consciously use for target shooting, only I'm not aware of it.
Make sure that everything else in your usual shooting routine is consistent and eventually your brain does the work. On a field course I always shoot shoot the bunnies instinctively with better results than when I try to figure out gaps. I think the subconscious is amazing and I reckon that's why 3D is so popular in the USA. I nearly always hit the kill zone with the first instinctive shot. Trouble is I just cannot do that four times in a row so I need a repeatable system for field.
The instinctive argument is a hot potato - do a search on the Leatherwall forum where it is debated to death.
 

chris

New member
i would like to think i shoot instinctively but do instinctively aim?
i duno but whats string walking?
chris
 

MikeD

New member
I'll order up the book. But one thought. I shoot right handed but am left eye dominant. I'm guessing that for instinctive shooting it is going to be important to shoot with both eyes open. So I might need to switch to left handed too.
 

MikeD

New member
Field Archer said:
Mike, you are allowed stringwalk in NFAS, but it would put you in to the Freestyle clase.

Another example, I shot in the Scottish champs a few weeks ago, one archer shoots Barebow, but he chooses to use a clicker and happily shoots in Freestyle.
Do many people shoot with sights and stabilisers in NFAS, or is it mainly barebow in one form or another?
 

Raedwald

New member
Field Archer said:
Mike, you are allowed stringwalk in NFAS, but it would put you in to the Freestyle clase.
To shoot HT/HS (depending on NFAS or EFAA, I can never remember which is which), string-walking is a no-no.
 

Field Archer

Well-known member
MikeD said:
Do many people shoot with sights and stabilisers in NFAS, or is it mainly barebow in one form or another?
Freestyle is one of the smaller groups, most of us are in the south and south west. There is usually about 20 freestyle that compete in the National Champs each year, compared to about 30 of each compound styles, 40 Barebow and 60/70 HT and Longbow.
This is just the mens, there are also ladies, juniors and cubs.
 

robtattoo

New member
Just rive the sights off of yer bow, sling yer stabs in the bin, grab a handfull of arrows & just go & shoot at various distances until you get it right every time :D You'll soon enough come up with your own particular aiming 'system' whether it be gap shooting, arrow tip sighting or whatever, you'll find out what works best for you ;)
 

Raedwald

New member
well, today's instinctive shooting has left three field-piles in and around various targets...... and I shot like a, well... yes, that bad!
 

chris

New member
Raedwald said:
well, today's instinctive shooting has left three field-piles in and around various targets...... and I shot like a, well... yes, that bad!

did you enjoy yourself???????
chris
 

Raedwald

New member
chris said:
did you enjoy yourself???????
chris
'course I did!!

Enjoyed shooting the half-round (albeit badly!)....

Enjoyed complaining about it afterwards with a couple of others, sitting drinking coffee in the "club shelter"....

And I'm going to enjoy replacing the field-piles on the three arrows, albeit they'll be a little shorter than I'd like, but it's the start of making my own arrows....

So, all in all a good day! :)
 

chris

New member
Raedwald said:
'course I did!!

Enjoyed shooting the half-round (albeit badly!)....

Enjoyed complaining about it afterwards with a couple of others, sitting drinking coffee in the "club shelter"....

And I'm going to enjoy replacing the field-piles on the three arrows, albeit they'll be a little shorter than I'd like, but it's the start of making my own arrows....

So, all in all a good day! :)
there ya go then:):):):)
chris
 

gwynn

New member
I have always shot instinctively, I miss a fair lot but hey!
I keep both eyes open, stand side on to the target and nock the arrow without looking at the target, I think it confuses the brain, then the bow comes up and around as the string comes back. If you time it right you're at full draw, the target is in front of you, the 'picture' is right and the arrow goes.
Up to 60 yards I reckon I'm totally instinctive, 60 yards plus I seem to take longer to loose and I think that sub-conciously I am aiming, though at what and how I don't know.
I get a great deal of satistifaction knowing that when I hit a target, that I have hit it, without any artificial help :yummy:
Just go out there, don't calculate distances or work out angles, just get the picture right and go for it!
 

chris

New member
gwynn said:
I have always shot instinctively, I miss a fair lot but hey!
I keep both eyes open, stand side on to the target and nock the arrow without looking at the target, I think it confuses the brain, then the bow comes up and around as the string comes back. If you time it right you're at full draw, the target is in front of you, the 'picture' is right and the arrow goes.
Up to 60 yards I reckon I'm totally instinctive, 60 yards plus I seem to take longer to loose and I think that sub-conciously I am aiming, though at what and how I don't know.
I get a great deal of satistifaction knowing that when I hit a target, that I have hit it, without any artificial help :yummy:
Just go out there, don't calculate distances or work out angles, just get the picture right and go for it!
good init :)

chris
 

Macbow

New member
"I have always shot instinctively, I miss a fair lot but hey!..."

No offence but that says to me that instinctive doesn't work very well. If archers are happy just flinging arrows in the general direction of the target then that's great but I don't see any real virtue in being instinctive without being consistent.

"I get a great deal of satistifaction knowing that when I hit a target, that I have hit it, without any artificial help"

Having a barebow shooting system of any kind - gap, point of aim, split vision, trajectory etc - still means you are not using artificial help ie a mechanical sight. Watching good barebow shooters may give the impression that they are just looking at the target and sticking four arrows into it with Zen-like ease but just because they are not using sights doesn't mean they are not aiming. They have probably worked very hard and methodically to develop those skills.

"Just go out there, don't calculate distances or work out angles, just get the picture right and go for it!"

I think it is possible to shoot well on a subconscious level to a certain extent but the brain still needs basic information to "calculate distances or work out angles". Without windage and elevation calculations in relation to the bow hand, riser or shaft the brain cannot learn the right picture well enough to repeat the same shot three or four times in a row.

MikeD asked about learning to shoot instinctively and while he wants to dispense with sights and stabilisers I assume by his post he still wants to hit the target.
The general advice for learning instinctive archery is to shoot with good form at 10 yards until you are breaking nocks only moving back in five yard stages when you are grouping so tightly that shafts are touching. That way you are imprinting the distances and angles into your subconscious through repetition. But even American bowhunter, author and traditional archery guru G Fred Asbell realised instinctive shooting has its limitations when he put his own instinctive shooting to the test on a field course.
 

chris

New member
Macbow said:
"I have always shot instinctively, I miss a fair lot but hey!..."

No offence but that says to me that instinctive doesn't work very well. If archers are happy just flinging arrows in the general direction of the target then that's great but I don't see any real virtue in being instinctive without being consistent.

"I get a great deal of satistifaction knowing that when I hit a target, that I have hit it, without any artificial help"

Having a barebow shooting system of any kind - gap, point of aim, split vision, trajectory etc - still means you are not using artificial help ie a mechanical sight. Watching good barebow shooters may give the impression that they are just looking at the target and sticking four arrows into it with Zen-like ease but just because they are not using sights doesn't mean they are not aiming. They have probably worked very hard and methodically to develop those skills.

"Just go out there, don't calculate distances or work out angles, just get the picture right and go for it!"

I think it is possible to shoot well on a subconscious level to a certain extent but the brain still needs basic information to "calculate distances or work out angles". Without windage and elevation calculations in relation to the bow hand, riser or shaft the brain cannot learn the right picture well enough to repeat the same shot three or four times in a row.

MikeD asked about learning to shoot instinctively and while he wants to dispense with sights and stabilisers I assume by his post he still wants to hit the target.
The general advice for learning instinctive archery is to shoot with good form at 10 yards until you are breaking nocks only moving back in five yard stages when you are grouping so tightly that shafts are touching. That way you are imprinting the distances and angles into your subconscious through repetition. But even American bowhunter, author and traditional archery guru G Fred Asbell realised instinctive shooting has its limitations when he put his own instinctive shooting to the test on a field course.

just practice and enjoy there is no need for all this analysis, that is hardly instinctive is it?
:boggled:
chris
 

Macbow

New member
chris said:
just practice and enjoy there is no need for all this analysis, that is hardly instinctive is it?
:boggled:
chris
I would accept that if this thread was on the Longbow section where many traditional archers are happy to just go with the flow and accept they will miss a lot. But if you cannot judge distances from 11 yards to 80 yards with at least some degree of accuracy you really shouldn't be on a Field Archery course. As I said earlier you can practice a system until it becomes instinctive but to shoot well on a field/3D course takes discipline and methodical practice. Without analysing your technique you won't know why you are missing and what you need to do to get on target - enjoy your practice but learn from it.
 
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