Hyperextended elbow help please

kpjthomas

New member
Attached is a photo of my 13yo daughter and her hyperextended elbow. As her mom I am concerned about the long-term term effects this will have on her body and archery career too.

We have heard suggestions to keep it bent....learn the difference between straight and hyperextended (if it were only that easy), try a sleeve....

I welcome your input. Okay......go....... :)

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kpjthomas

New member
Please note that this picture was taken on an off day it is typically not that bad but I am sure you get my drift. :)

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Mark31121

Member
Ironman
Has she always done that with her arm or is it just since she's taken up archery? I can hyperextend my arm into that position, but I feel it in my shoulder and neck muscles so I was wondering if she's pushing the bow causing (or exagerating) the hyper extension, or if that's just how her arm sits.

Ideally the bones in her front arm (in her case her left) should be aligned so that the force is going through the bones, rather than being held in place by the soft tissue. It is possible to learn how not to hyperextend, but it does take a lot of effort before it becomes subconsious - it might be worth consulting a physiotherapist for some range of motion training to reduce the risks of injury in the future.

It's hard to see from that photo but it's possible that her front shoulder is also a bit high and with the hyperextension it's quite probable that her shoulder is taking more strain than it should - my suggestion is to familiarise yourself with what the shoulder position should look like and get her to draw her bow so you can see what is going on. This is best done with her wearing something that covers as little of her shoulders/shoulder blades as possible (which is why I haven't suggested you post the pictures on here) or with a couple of mirrors she can see for herself.

Most of the information online will have pictures of men, usually with well defined muscles so it might not be as obvious with your daughter - for a comparison have a look at some of Erika Anear's youtube videos - a lot of them are compound but the shoulder should look the same
 

kpjthomas

New member
Excellent point!!!!!!! My dad, who is a PT, refused to comment but by the look on his face her arm positioning was making him incredibly uncomfortable.

Below is a picture from the same day that includes her shoulder. Not easy to see though because of the baggy shirt. Let me know what you think.

The photo grid is from awhile ago and her arm isn't as hyperextended then. Still a good example of her posture.

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ThomVis

Active member
I'm no expert here, just commenting. Is she gripping the bow differently, then and now? I also notice in the black shirt photo that her elbow could rotate a little more clockwise (from her point of view) so it is a little more vertical. Rotating the upper arm (but not the shoulder) clockwise will help with this. Maybe that can help with the hyper extension?
 

Nightimer

New member
Are both your daughters elbows effected?
Have you seeked medical help or advice?
Your daughter is very young and long term damage is a real possibility because of the hyper mobility.
The joint is not taking the load properly so extra muscle strength is needed to support it.
Apart from the elbow issues I can see one or two "archery issues" that need addressing.
Her bow hand is very tense.
Her bow shoulder is rising.
Her grip seems to be rather "deep" on the bow handle( i bet her knuckles are almost vertical).
She is mashing the string into her face rather than just touching.
I realise that you did not need to hear these things,they are just observations.
I would run the joint stuff past an orthopaedic doctor to check on any long term damage possibility due to archery as the loading on joints is unlike any other you get in day to day life.
He should give her advice as to what help she can get (if any/if needed).
Then a coach to sort out the bits and bobs on the archery front.
All this might seem dramatic, but she is 13 years old, she has young joints which need protecting from nasty stuff like arthritis happening when she gets older.
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
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Ironman
Most kids have hyperextending or loose joints, and it seems more common in girls. This generally improves with time. I would agree with rotating the arm slightly more and dropping the front shoulder. Tucking the fingers into the grip/palm might help (rather than pointing at the target), and rotating the bow hand out till the knuckles are around 45 deg (as mentioned above). This will help alignment of all her bones and will help protect all her joints - she's probably over flexible in most of them.

My daughter had such a hyperextension that it seemed to be at about 200 deg when she started shooting at about 9 or 10. It has now at 19 firmed up so it is just past 180 when at lock, but she has found a good repeatable position around just straight. She never had any pain in the joint.

As kids shoot very low poundage bows these days - just so joints are not over loaded - it is more important that they don't hit their arm with the string. So if you can alter her bow hand and rotate the arm a little with a dropped bow shoulder I reckon you will be well on the way.
 

touchmybownot

New member
From what I can see in the picture it looks like the bow hand is not positioned correctly. The bow arm needs to be turned clockwise more and that the pad of the hand below the thumb should be the main connection between the hand and the bow. This will also act to move the elbow round and decrease the hyperextension. She should also practice positioning of the elbow prior to draw - I looked the coaching videos on AGB and it seems that the one you need is missing! It's difficult to explain in words so you should find a good coach to teach this.
 

kpjthomas

New member
Thanks everyone.

I will pay more attention to her shoulder rotation the next time she shoots.

As for the grip, the original one has been removed so yes she does have a low grip. We have looked closely at her grip placement which seems fine but it has been extremely difficult for her to relax her fingers. That's why we are wondering if the elbow is playing a role in the finger tensing.? She has come a long way!!!! You should have seen all the finger wiggling just as short as a month ago. lol

Kelli 🎯
 

kpjthomas

New member
Has she always done that with her arm or is it just since she's taken up archery? I can hyperextend my arm into that position, but I feel it in my shoulder and neck muscles so I was wondering if she's pushing the bow causing (or exagerating) the hyper extension, or if that's just how her arm sits.

Ideally the bones in her front arm (in her case her left) should be aligned so that the force is going through the bones, rather than being held in place by the soft tissue. It is possible to learn how not to hyperextend, but it does take a lot of effort before it becomes subconsious - it might be worth consulting a physiotherapist for some range of motion training to reduce the risks of injury in the future.

It's hard to see from that photo but it's possible that her front shoulder is also a bit high and with the hyperextension it's quite probable that her shoulder is taking more strain than it should - my suggestion is to familiarise yourself with what the shoulder position should look like and get her to draw her bow so you can see what is going on. This is best done with her wearing something that covers as little of her shoulders/shoulder blades as possible (which is why I haven't suggested you post the pictures on here) or with a couple of mirrors she can see for herself.

Most of the information online will have pictures of men, usually with well defined muscles so it might not be as obvious with your daughter - for a comparison have a look at some of Erika Anear's youtube videos - a lot of them are compound but the shoulder should look the same
They are noticibly hyperextended in dance as well. Seems to be becoming natural for her and that is most likely NOT a good thing.

Kelli 🎯
 

touchmybownot

New member
Hi Kelli, the part of the hand circled red should not be visible from this shot angle and shouldn?t be in contact with the grip - it should be on the left hand side of the grip. In the other picture, the black line should follow the left hand side of the grip and the green part is the area that should exert forward force on the bow grip. This will also act to rotate the arm at the elbow and decrease the hyperextension of the elbow. Hope this clear and of help. One thing to mention is that most bow grips are not a good match to archers hands and you may need to build up the grip with some putty to make it more comfortable. In the meantime, some tennis racket grip will help to prevent the bow hand from slipping when trying this position. Hope this helps.
Picture1.jpg Picture2.jpg
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Good post - that is exactly it. It will also take the pressure off the tendons on the fingers so maybe a bit more relaxing!
 

kpjthomas

New member
Hi Kelli, the part of the hand circled red should not be visible from this shot angle and shouldn?t be in contact with the grip - it should be on the left hand side of the grip. In the other picture, the black line should follow the left hand side of the grip and the green part is the area that should exert forward force on the bow grip. This will also act to rotate the arm at the elbow and decrease the hyperextension of the elbow. Hope this clear and of help. One thing to mention is that most bow grips are not a good match to archers hands and you may need to build up the grip with some putty to make it more comfortable. In the meantime, some tennis racket grip will help to prevent the bow hand from slipping when trying this position. Hope this helps.
View attachment 3401 View attachment 3402
Thank you so much! You have no idea how much this is appreciated right now. :)

Kelli 🎯
 
M

Moose

Guest
You can practice rolling the arm and shoulder using the edge of a door so that she learns how it should feel and although not a bow grip it does allow you to get the feel and technique right to set up the pre draw arm position once this is done it should be easy to maintain through the draw cycle.

posted by moose on the loose
 
M

Moose

Guest
Cannot post a video of me doing this so if you PM me an email address I will send you it

posted by moose on the loose
 

emmaluvseeyore

New member
I am 24 and have only been shooting regularly from early this year (I have shot occasionally when I was younger, but once at year at most). My elbows have always hyper-extended, and it is incredibly common in girls (most of my 7-10 year old Brownies can hyper-extend their elbows). I am always aware when shooting that my elbows do this, and I really have to pay attention to my bow arm to make sure it is in the right position before I shoot. I don't get any pains in my arms from the hyper-extension, so I would have thought she would be OK, as long as she gets her bow arm position fixed.
 

Mark31121

Member
Ironman
Excellent point!!!!!!! My dad, who is a PT, refused to comment but by the look on his face her arm positioning was making him incredibly uncomfortable.

Below is a picture from the same day that includes her shoulder. Not easy to see though because of the baggy shirt. Let me know what you think.

The photo grid is from awhile ago and her arm isn't as hyperextended then. Still a good example of her posture.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I'd keep an eye on her shoulders when she's hyperextending her elbow - probably easier if you're recording a session so she stops thinking about the camera, my form crumbles when I know I'm being filmed.
 
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