Removing an ACE insert from a Nav shaft

Ffish

Well-known member
Shooting my Short Metric 3 this afternoon for the winter league, and managed somehow to snap a bulge point off an ACE insert. Hardly the end of the world, and thankfully the arrow shaft is OK, but it would appear that the thread of the point has broken inside the insert - question is, what's the best way to remove the insert from the shaft?

Is it safe to heat a Navigator A/C arrow shaft over a flame to pull it out? I'm assuming it's held in place with hot melt?
 

Tarkwin

Prince Of Dorkness
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
American Shoot
I tend to remove piles by dipping in boiling water....

T.
 

Ffish

Well-known member
Nope - that wont work.... It's in there as tight as a tight thing.

Sussed it - I gently heated the shaft over the gas cooker, quite high over the flame so's not to burn the carbon fibre, and it's out now. Bit scary though, heating 12 quid's worth of arrow and worrying about burning carbon fibre!

But then I realised that F1 cars brakes are made of the same, so C/F should be safe to heat without problem.
 
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Kae

The American
American Shoot
Nope - that wont work.... It's in there as tight as a tight thing.

Sussed it - I gently heated the shaft over the gas cooker, quite high over the flame so's not to burn the carbon fibre, and it's out now. Bit scary though, heating 12 quid's worth of arrow and worrying about burning carbon fibre!

But then I realised that F1 cars brakes are made of the same, so C/F should be safe to heat without problem.
Carbon Fibre?? I thought F1 cars had ceramic brakes??

The only other way is to heat the shaft gently, then using a long stiff piece of wire, push the insert out (pushing from behind so you have to remove the nock obviously).

Kae.
 

Field Archer

Well-known member
I know this is off topic, but I was talking to someone today that said that one of their club members got a carbon splinter in their finger from a target butt. Two days later, after not being able to remove it they went to the local hospital. There, they opened up the finger to try and remove it, but couldn't find it. The finger later went septic, he has now had to have the finger removed.
 

Ffish

Well-known member
Carbon Fibre?? I thought F1 cars had ceramic brakes??
Nope - CF. You'll see the disks when they're cold are a grey/black colour and they glow red when they're in use. When they change wheels at pit stops the CF dust goes everywhere. Ceramic brakes are used on high-spec sports cars like Ferrari or Lambos.

Anyway, I didn't need the wire from behind approach as once the hot melt was warmed up I could pull the insert off with a pair of pliers quite easily. :cheerful:
 

Schme1440

New member
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
A good technique I found (if your worried about burning the carbon). Dont heat the shaft but heat the pliers you intend to use to remove the pile. You will need a flame to do this. I have a butane tourch used for copper pipe soldering that I use. Heat the pliers till the gripping bit is nice and hot. Grip the pile and pull. Dont pull to hard just put a bit of pressure on it to remove the pile. The heat from the pliers will trnsfer direct to the pile and not the carbon and as the pile gets hotter the hot melt melts and out comes the pile. This reduces the amount of heat applied to the carbon. Takes a little longer but seems to be alot safer for the carbon.

Oh and yes F1 cars use carbon brakes and road super cars use ceramic cos carbon brakes need replacing after every race. Carbon brakes work better but dont last long. Watch them next time they remove a wheel in a race. You should see (as the nut gun goes on) a big puff of black smoke. This is carbon dust. Some drivers have even been known to have this dust in their lungs.
 

BowSurfer

New member
Ironman
A good technique I found (if your worried about burning the carbon). Dont heat the shaft but heat the pliers you intend to use to remove the pile. You will need a flame to do this. I have a butane tourch used for copper pipe soldering that I use. Heat the pliers till the gripping bit is nice and hot. Grip the pile and pull. Dont pull to hard just put a bit of pressure on it to remove the pile. The heat from the pliers will trnsfer direct to the pile and not the carbon and as the pile gets hotter the hot melt melts and out comes the pile. This reduces the amount of heat applied to the carbon. Takes a little longer but seems to be alot safer for the carbon.

Oh and yes F1 cars use carbon brakes and road super cars use ceramic cos carbon brakes need replacing after every race. Carbon brakes work better but dont last long. Watch them next time they remove a wheel in a race. You should see (as the nut gun goes on) a big puff of black smoke. This is carbon dust. Some drivers have even been known to have this dust in their lungs.
I believe that Easton suggest just heating the tip of the pile rather than the shaft - although they really roccomend using araldite rather than hot melt, but removing them is then virtually impossible.

With regard to F1 brakes, the important feature of carbon disks is that they only work when red hot and this makes the somewhat unsuitable for road use.
 

wingate_52

Active member
It has been said at my club that carbon fibre splinters will work their way up the bloodstream. Dangerous and potentially deadly.
 

Flying Whale

New member
I think you will find the risk of heating the arrow is not so much burning the carbon, as destroying what binds it together.
 

simon m

New member
Ironman
Carbon is inert and doesn't show up on x-rays. Bad news for the blood stream.

Our MB compounder has a huge scar to prove what razor sharp CF can do to your knuckle if inserted at an angle
 

Flying Whale

New member
Carbon is inert and doesn't show up on x-rays.
Not quite true.

Carbon is not inert, because you can burn it to carbon dioxide.

You are probably correct however that it does not show up on x-rays, because its density to x-ray penetration is similar to skin etc, most of which is carbon hydrogen and oxygen.


It can however be very nasty stuff, as shown by your froiends encounter.
 
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