serving question

Kenjichan

New member
Hello all. I've decided to jump into attempting to make my own recurve string. No shop where I live carries 8125g, so I decided to learn a new skill. My question is regarding the serving thickness to use. I am going to make an endless 18 strand string and was wondering if anyone knows off the top of their head, which serving thickness would accommodate an Easton small g-nock?
Every time I've had a string made here, the serving is too thin and I end up having to dental floss it to get the nock to fit. If I knew the thickness difference between 8190 (what I'm using now) and 8125g, I could maybe figure it out.

Also, I shoot a Win&Win Inno carbon with long Hoyt GP 720 limbs. The strings made here are 169cm. My recommended bracing height is between 22 - 24cm. A 169 string gets me 23.3 with no twists at all. When I make this string, what length do you think I should set my jig to get an end result of around 170cm with room to twist up and down? I know most of this will be trial and error, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks eh!
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Blimey! Does no one read my posts? ;)
Just lay extra strands of string a few inches long where you are going to serve in order to bulk it up to the right size. Serve over the extra strands for a little way, try the fit, if it's not right, undo the bit of serving and add more strands.
that way you build up the centre serving to be the right fit and comfortable on the fingers without building a string that has too many strands and is unecessarilly heavy.
Del
 

Kenjichan

New member
Bloody hell, I read so many posts today that I'm sure I'll be putting in overtime to catch up to all the undone work on my desk! They need to label this whole site NSFW :D
I'll give that a shot, sounds like a solid idea.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If you use your 169 string to find out what happens to the length when you put in 20 twists, you will be pretty close to knowing what will happen to a 170 string with 20 twists in.
 

EVC

New member
For me, 16 strands of 8125(g) with 0.021" central serving for small nocks. I add two strands for large nocks. FWIW the same with Fastflight+. Based on that I would say that with a 0.017" thread you may get a good fit for small nocks with 18 strands. YMMV though.

HTH.

Elder.
 

ThomVis

Active member
I use 18 strands 8125(g) with 0.016" centre serving for Beiter #1 nocks.
[video=youtube;0hwQiKAWl2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hwQiKAWl2k[/video]
 

Kenjichan

New member
Thanks for all the input guys. With 46 pounds on the fingers and a fairly good release, would I be better with 16 or 18 strands? I could probably make both and test them out I guess eh.

As for the string length, what would be a good starting length to get me near the ball park? 3 1/4 inch shorter than what I want it to be?
 

ThomVis

Active member
With that poundage 20-22 would probably make a more stable string. Requires large groove nocks tho.
Untwist your current string and measure.
 

carl7

New member
With that poundage 20-22 would probably make a more stable string. Requires large groove nocks tho.
Untwist your current string and measure.
Agreed above.

For length, on my setup, I make the layout length 66-1/2" to 66-3/4" depending on how many twists I want.

The bottom line is you will be making at least several "trial" strings if your beginning stringmaking to get it how you'd like. That first string, while it may be usable, won't be just how you want, almost guaranteed, (depends on how particular you are I guess). Your serving wrapping may be sloppy, the length not quite right, and a lot more details to fix etc.

Some may poo poo this but I stretch all my strings at various stages before doing any serving to approx 300# with a boat winch and scale.
 

carl7

New member
Rather than a boat winch (don't have one) can I hook it from a weight to stretch? How long would I leave it on?
Sure you can use weights, I leave it stretched about a hour. One thing though, I stretch when the end loops are served (no outer serving yet) and another stretching with the string twisted with however many you want. If your going to use a weight, you have to keep it from turning and untwisting the string.

All the following IMO: (it works for me)
With the string twisted and under tension, and after burnishing the string with a piece of cord, I do the outer endloop servings and the center serving. On the endloops outer serving, you can go towards the loop or start at the loop end and wind towards the center of the string. You have to find which works best on your particular setup and way of working. I wrap towards the loop, that way the windings are going "uphill" and makes for a tighter wrap, especially at the bump where the inner loop serving ends overlap.

Also be mindful of the direction your wrapping. (all going in the same direction as the string twist)
Another thing you have to do is terminate the tag ends in a neat fashion.
Get a feel for the right amount of tension as your spinning the bobbin.

Sounds complex at first, becomes easy and you'll find your own ways quickly.

Much good info in stretching and all the fine details can be found at archerytalk in the "arrows and strings" section.
 

Kenjichan

New member
Thanks for all the helpful intel. I'm going to go with 18 strands but am still a little confused with what to use for serving. My understanding is a lot of people use 2 different materials for the ends and centre?
Out of the choices available to me here, which would you guys suggest?
I can get: brownell (crown serving, diamondback, 1D, bullwhip and mini)
BCY (#62XS, halo braided, #62, 3D and 2X)
as well as Angel Majesty...
 

RichParker

New member
If you are using 8125G they recomend Halo for the centre and that can also be used for the ends.
I use Halo on the centre and 3D on the ends (I se 3D purely because it comes in same colour options as the string material).

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

carl7

New member
Thanks for all the helpful intel. I'm going to go with 18 strands but am still a little confused with what to use for serving. My understanding is a lot of people use 2 different materials for the ends and centre?
Out of the choices available to me here, which would you guys suggest?
I can get: brownell (crown serving, diamondback, 1D, bullwhip and mini)
BCY (#62XS, halo braided, #62, 3D and 2X)
as well as Angel Majesty...
Again, all this IMO (it works for me) but there are many other ways just or more correct.

Ok, I looked up one of my 8125 strings with 18 strands. For large G nocks, I used .021 Polygrip serving. So taking a shot in the dark to get you started, I'd say for your small G nock, try .015 or .017 material. (any of the above serving materials in similar size) For now, material doesn't matter, you'll find the one you like with experience, just get a size that works.

Remember, before you start the center, wrap a few turns (watch the tension) and see how well the nock fits. And, as your winding, check the nock fit often in the area where the nocks going to fit.

disclaimer: Not responsible if there's a complaint...haha!

The truth is, before your done, you would have tried a few materials. Much depends on your own personal stringmaking technique and preference, but no getting around trying it yourself.
 

Kenjichan

New member
Thanks. When I stretch this bad boy from a weight, ideally, should this be done before or after the end servings are put on? As well, should I be throwing some twists in before stretching it? How many do you figure for a long string?
 

carl7

New member
Thanks. When I stretch this bad boy from a weight, ideally, should this be done before or after the end servings are put on? As well, should I be throwing some twists in before stretching it? How many do you figure for a long string?
The way I do it, after you layout the right amount of stands, I serve the endloops. Then stretch the untwisted but end served string for about a hour. Then I put in about 25 twists and stretch it again. (I guess you can twist it when the endloops are served and stretch leaving out the untwisted stretch) I do it figuring it'll even out the wraps a bit.

After the twisted stretch, burnish the string to consolidate the strands and get rid of extra wax with some strong cord like those round shoe laces, making it nice and round like a rod and do the end outer servings, then the center serving. I make the center serving about 5" inch saving weight and material.

To do this right a stretching jig will be very handy, in fact after the strand layout and end serving, I move the string to the stretching jig and complete the string on there. Again some great ideas and photos for a stretching jig and techniques on AT.

I've been very pleased with my strings newbie that I am. I shoot 5 days a week, perhaps 2-3 hours a day and not one bit of tiller change or anything else. The string is stable as can be. I guess because of the stretching.
 

Kenjichan

New member
Thanks Carl. Just to clarify, "serving the endloop" refers to wrapping the serving material at either end, right? Does this term also mean joining the two halves together? On an 18 strand, joining the 9 L strand and 9 R strand together by figure 8 method or what have you. If that is the case, then I would stretch by the endloops? If that is not the case, anywhere on the string is fine to stretch?
 

carl7

New member
Thanks Carl. Just to clarify, "serving the endloop" refers to wrapping the serving material at either end, right? Does this term also mean joining the two halves together? On an 18 strand, joining the 9 L strand and 9 R strand together by figure 8 method or what have you. If that is the case, then I would stretch by the endloops? If that is not the case, anywhere on the string is fine to stretch?
I don't know exactly the proper terms sorry, serving the endloop means the part that actually touches the nock. Then what I call the outer serving is the serving that covers the first serving which ends up underneath the outer wrap all except for the loop part that goes around the nock. I tend to make words too complex.

Once I've served both (inner) loops, I put it on the stretching jig and stretch the yet untwisted string. Then just loosen the tension and put about 25 twists and put it under tension again, minimum of about a hour.

Then still under tension, I burnish the string part (not the end servings) and start wrapping the outer endloop servings. (you always do both ends)

Now finish up by doing the center serving last.

There are a few ways to all do the same thing. Videos are the easiest way to understand and AT has some great videos.

The hardest part is the outer endloop servings, it's hard to explain, HUTCH has a video how he works the out serving towards the loop. That's exactly the way I do it.

Ok found Hutch's video, note he's winding the outer serving UPHILL (towards the loop)

http://s745.photobucket.com/user/Hu...ings/100_2413_zpsda44b3ea.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
 
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