Release aid and 'd' loop ... Advice

Stiks

Member
I'm just about to get back into compound archery after a couple of years concetrating on trad archery.
I used to use a wrist release aid ( a Copper Head which I had to fire off with my wedding ring finger due to hand/wrist injury) and this time I want to have a go using a handheld release. I've been told that I could get a better release using one and that it might help in getting rid of my 'punching' habit.

I was thinking about buying a True ball Chappy Boss with the 360 swivel head as I will have a 'D' Loop fitted. I've held one and tried it with a length of string with two loops as they had no left hand bows at BS when I popped in and my new bow has not yet arrived. It felt strange but I think I could get used to it.

After observing me Steve feels that the Carter Chocolate Addiction would suit me better and is going to bring his in for me to feel/try.

I have to have the back of my hand towards my face because I have a fused wrist and pronation/supination is limited.

keeping that in mind, my concern knowing absolutly nowt about hand held release aids is that without the swivel head won't I be twisting the loop thus torqing the string?? Does this matter, I feel it does but stand to be corrected?

My fingers have little feeling/dexterity so I know putting loop through loop is going to be a real pain for me. It has to be as fiddle free as poss.

Your advice and experience would be most welcome guys an gals.
 

philhoney

New member
keeping that in mind, my concern knowing absolutly nowt about hand held release aids is that without the swivel head won't I be twisting the loop thus torqing the string?? Does this matter, I feel it does but stand to be corrected?
This is true if you use the normal way of tieing the loop on, one knot above and one below the knock. I have seen somewhere both knots tied above the knock and by pushing them together the loop turns 90deg. Got to be worth experimenting with.
Phil
 

niceguy

Member
This is true if you use the normal way of tieing the loop on, one knot above and one below the knock. I have seen somewhere both knots tied above the knock and by pushing them together the loop turns 90deg. Got to be worth experimenting with.
Phil
The normal method is to place both knots below the knock or the arrow will be lifted off the rest. With both knots below there is a fair down pressure on the rest which sometimes can be helpfull and other time not. The main disadvantage is that it raises the back of the arrow and the sight will have to go down to compensate, this is often a problem at longer distances. The normal method of one knot above and one below is fine even if your hand is flat against your face, you may twist the loop a little more than normal but it won't make any difference. At full draw the bow string is under a lot of tension and it will take a lot more than a little torsion from a loop to affect it.
 

Bald Eagle

New member
Hi stiks, if you've had trouble with punching the shot and with your hand problem you would be better off using a back tension release like the Carter Evo. Come to reference as normal with your thumb on the trigger, relax the thumb pressure, push pull and it's a ten!!!! We are all control freaks and will hit the trigger when we think it's right to do so. With an Evo it's a disciplined shot and will only execute when the parameters dictate.
 

philhoney

New member
The normal method is to place both knots below the knock or the arrow will be lifted off the rest. With both knots below there is a fair down pressure on the rest which sometimes can be helpfull and other time not. The main disadvantage is that it raises the back of the arrow and the sight will have to go down to compensate, this is often a problem at longer distances. The normal method of one knot above and one below is fine even if your hand is flat against your face, you may twist the loop a little more than normal but it won't make any difference. At full draw the bow string is under a lot of tension and it will take a lot more than a little torsion from a loop to affect it.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Have a look at this:-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ij5aW8l6o I have to admit I am new to archery but I spend a lot of time online looking for things archery related and I have never seen a D loop tied below the knock. It may suit some archers but I don't think it is the norm.
Phil
 

bassplayer34

New member
Fonz Awardee
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Have a look at this:-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ij5aW8l6o I have to admit I am new to archery but I spend a lot of time online looking for things archery related and I have never seen a D loop tied below the knock. It may suit some archers but I don't think it is the norm.
Phil
I must admit Ive never seen a D Loop tied with both knots above the arrow. have a look at John Dudleys method. The first pic with 4 arrows its the 3rd one down.

http://tirarcbazan.u7n.org/maintenancearc/nockpoulie.pdf
 

Stiks

Member
If your fingers are bad I would have serious doubts about using a hand held release.
Yes that does concern me some as I'm yet to put any real pressure/weight on them, that is the first thing I must find out for sure! Having said that, I can make a good strong fist, my grip is not as strong as my other hand but it's not bad.
Main problem is dexterity and some loss of feeling.

The normal method is to place both knots below the knock or the arrow will be lifted off the rest. With both knots below there is a fair down pressure on the rest which sometimes can be helpfull and other time not. The main disadvantage is that it raises the back of the arrow and the sight will have to go down to compensate, this is often a problem at longer distances. The normal method of one knot above and one below is fine even if your hand is flat against your face, you may twist the loop a little more than normal but it won't make any difference. At full draw the bow string is under a lot of tension and it will take a lot more than a little torsion from a loop to affect it.
Thank you niceguy, TBH I don't like the idea of putting both knots below the nock. It might work for me but somethings making me feel uneasy about that, not sure what though!
Yep, I guess there is a lot of tension on that string and it may not, as you say, have any affect whatsoever. Is it just True Balls marketting hype thats affecting me?? ...

Hi stiks, if you've had trouble with punching the shot and with your hand problem you would be better off using a back tension release like the Carter Evo. Come to reference as normal with your thumb on the trigger, relax the thumb pressure, push pull and it's a ten!!!! We are all control freaks and will hit the trigger when we think it's right to do so. With an Evo it's a disciplined shot and will only execute when the parameters dictate.
Thank you Bald Eagle, I have been thinking just that! It would no doubt be a bit scary at first not having that full control but I feel it would certainly improve my form. And it ain't going to go off I guess until that trigger is released??
Also, what happens if for some reason, say something suddenly moves in front of the target the moment you relaese the trigger, (unlikely I know but not impossible) can it be re-applied if it hasn't already gone off??

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Have a look at this:-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Ij5aW8l6o I have to admit I am new to archery but I spend a lot of time online looking for things archery related and I have never seen a D loop tied below the knock. It may suit some archers but I don't think it is the norm.
Phil
Cheers for the link Phil, I use a similar method to that, I use serving inside, slightly larger below the arrow nock. There is a reason but I'm damned if I can remember what it was! :)

Anyone else, Should I be bothered about torquing the string?
 

Stiks

Member
I must admit Ive never seen a D Loop tied with both knots above the arrow. have a look at John Dudleys method. The first pic with 4 arrows its the 3rd one down.

http://tirarcbazan.u7n.org/maintenancearc/nockpoulie.pdf
Thanks for the link, I've saved the pdf.
I see the two under as niceguy wrote. I will be shooting NFAS UL hopefully at some point so I'm not needing great range. It's an idea but still feeling uneasy about it, I tend to go with my gut when I get that feeling but I won't rule it out!
 

philhoney

New member
Thanks for the link, I've saved the pdf.
I see the two under as niceguy wrote. I will be shooting NFAS UL hopefully at some point so I'm not needing great range. It's an idea but still feeling uneasy about it, I tend to go with my gut when I get that feeling but I won't rule it out!
One point in favour of both knots above the knock point would be better sight marks at longer distances.
Phil
 

mk1

It's an X
Supporter
And it ain't going to go off I guess until that trigger is released??
Also, what happens if for some reason, say something suddenly moves in front of the target the moment you relaese the trigger, (unlikely I know but not impossible) can it be re-applied if it hasn't already gone off??
The release should be set at a weight above the holding weight of the bow plus to take account of the pressure you apply to it up before you release the safety - all so that you have to apply more pressure - pull - before it will go off. To abandon the shot you simply put your thumb back on the safety (or back off depending on the type of release aid) and come down. I always try to angle the aim of the shot to within the 3 metre line - not at my feet :) - before I come down.
 

Wizard

New member
Hi Stiks

just keep things as simple as pos. Normal D-loop (above/below nocking point). Make D-loop long enough that twisting is not an issue (and adjust bow draw length accordingly). Think you mentioned dexterity of fingers, that is not an issue, in fact a locked, blocked solid fist may even be an advantage, let the pressure of the pull on your RELAXED fist as you reach the MAX activate your release by squeezing thumb (trigger) and third, fourth, pinky together (kinda squashing your hand, Alistair has a good article on this).
I'd get the Carter Target3, its a damned good Standard basic thumb trigger release.

PM me if you want more advice. Only too pleased to try and help. :)
 

Stiks

Member
The release should be set at a weight above the holding weight of the bow plus to take account of the pressure you apply to it up before you release the safety - all so that you have to apply more pressure - pull - before it will go off. To abandon the shot you simply put your thumb back on the safety (or back off depending on the type of release aid) and come down. I always try to angle the aim of the shot to within the 3 metre line - not at my feet :) - before I come down.
Ok I get the idea now thank you. After trying Steves Chocolate addiction I feel I could certainly get used to that. I tried it with their dampered test bow, no great weight but it feels good in my hand and I have no worries about using it on a higher poundage bow. So thats good!

Hi Stiks

just keep things as simple as pos. Normal D-loop (above/below nocking point). Make D-loop long enough that twisting is not an issue (and adjust bow draw length accordingly). Think you mentioned dexterity of fingers, that is not an issue, in fact a locked, blocked solid fist may even be an advantage, let the pressure of the pull on your RELAXED fist as you reach the MAX activate your release by squeezing thumb (trigger) and third, fourth, pinky together (kinda squashing your hand, Alistair has a good article on this).
I'd get the Carter Target3, its a damned good Standard basic thumb trigger release.

PM me if you want more advice. Only too pleased to try and help.
Today 11:25 AM
Thanks for that Wizard, I also asked Steve while I was there and he also said not to worry about torquing the string. I looked at the loop while at full draw and it is twisted through 90deg at anchor, as I knew it would be. If it's putting much torsion on the string I certainly can't see it, it was on that very low poundage test bow. So cheers! I'll not worry about it when I eventually purchase.

What I'm thinking of doing and hope you people will tell me if you think it's a good idea.

I'm quite taken with the idea of using a BT release like the EVO Bald Egle mentioned.
But first off I'm going to buy a wrist release like the True Ball Short an Sweet. Basically so I can go out and have fun with my new bow straight away ;) ...
When I can afford I will get the Carter Evo and work on good form with that indoors. From what I've read and have been told that release can certainly improve my/anyones form because you have to get it right for it to consistantly fire correctly??

Now, my main worry using the Evo outdoors NFAS UL (Even when I'm used to it) is ; due to the awkward stances/body positions you occasionally have to adopt it could be rather awkward, possibly dangerous to use, do you people agree or nay??

Later I'll get a Hand Release like the Choc Addiction for UL, flog the Short an Sweet and use the Evo indoors to work on form.

Thats my plan at the mo.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on that.
 

Stiks

Member
Sentinel or Drenalin ..Arrhhh ... Why do people do this!!

Set myself to have that Sentinel and now someones pointed out a Drenalin at similar cost. And it's new with full warranty!!

Only 33" ata though, I like the Mathews finnish plus I'm used to the Mathews Draw Cycle. I can't get to try the Sentinel which is a pain!

Damn it ... Sentinel or Drenalin, Drenalin or Sentinel

HELLLLP MEEEE! ...........
 

unoskc

New member
Release Aid and D Loop

Hi Stiks

I have a Chocolate Addiction release aid and like you I draw with the back of my hand to my face. The twisting of the D Loop would not appear to be affecting the consistency of my shooting. What does is the punching and the attempted darts throw. I haven't totally conquered these problems yet but they are both linked to my mental state .. too anxious to put it in the gold and away it goes anywhere but... relax and concentrate on aiming and then a smooth release it generally ends up in the right place. I did switch to a top end Stan release aid in early Summer.... big mistake for me... I was missing the target at 60 yds. 4 weeks later back to the Chocolate Addiction I was hitting 5 out 6 in the Gold at 80 yds - much better!
 

Stiks

Member
Hi Stiks

I have a Chocolate Addiction release aid and like you I draw with the back of my hand to my face. The twisting of the D Loop would not appear to be affecting the consistency of my shooting. What does is the punching and the attempted darts throw. I haven't totally conquered these problems yet but they are both linked to my mental state .. too anxious to put it in the gold and away it goes anywhere but... relax and concentrate on aiming and then a smooth release it generally ends up in the right place. I did switch to a top end Stan release aid in early Summer.... big mistake for me... I was missing the target at 60 yds. 4 weeks later back to the Chocolate Addiction I was hitting 5 out 6 in the Gold at 80 yds - much better!
Thank you, I have bought a Short n Sweet Wrist release for the moment until I can afford the Choc Addiction. I have found that it is quite a mental tussle not to punch the trigger but when I do get it right it's working extremely well.
Nice and crisp and you can, as the name suggests, get it nice and short so it should not affect my anchor much when I eventually get a thumb release.

I must admit I do like the short n sweet, I trigger it deep into my ring finger, (second knuckle) if I take up the pressure and use back tension I get a nice surprise release ( well nearly a surprise, there is a degree of control there ).

If I can learn to do that every shot I'll be a happy chappy!
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I must admit I do like the short n sweet, I trigger it deep into my ring finger, (second knuckle) if I take up the pressure and use back tension I get a nice surprise release ( well nearly a surprise, there is a degree of control there ).

If I can learn to do that every shot I'll be a happy chappy!
If you can learn to do that every shot. Why change to a hand held?????????????
 

Stiks

Member
If you can learn to do that every shot. Why change to a hand held?????????????
If further practice shows I can release consistantly like that using the S n S, I will rethink of course.
I was reading, that generally you can get a better more consistant loose using a hand held but could not afford one. I went with the S n S so I could at least shoot until then. If I hit the kills 8 of 10 I may not bother and stick with it.

Do you think It's worth getting a BT release to train indoors with,
they are supposed to better your form, or just practice like hell with the S n S?
 
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