X10 Tungsten points coming out in straw bosses

sarahm

New member
Hi

I have recently got some X10's and have hot melted the Tungsten points in with the Easton hot melt glue that came with the points.

I recently attended a tournament and had 3 of my 12 arrows lose their points in the straw bosses. I had shot them without much bother into foam bosses in practice but am finding they come out of the shaft much more easily (and expensively!) on the straw bosses.

Can anyone give me advice on the type of glue that would be better and how to fit them so they stay put regardless of the boss type please?

Many thanks

Sarah
 

Darth Tom

Member
I've always found the normal hot melt glue works quite well, I'm a little concerned because I'm using the low-temperature stuff on mine... Best advice would be to make sure to avoid overheating the glue as this might weaken it (heat the point just enough for the glue to melt, you don't want it to go runny). Also might be worth cleaning out the inside of the shafts, for X10s I find pulling most of the cotton off a cotton bud and dipping it in nail varnish remover or similar, then rubbing that into the shaft can work well. Carbon dust from manufacturing and cutting can be an issue.

As an aside, it could be that this happens with tungsten points because the specific heat capacity of tungsten is relatively low; the heat from friction in a hard straw boss could be enough to soften the glue. It sounds silly, but given how warm arrows can be when pulled from bosses there could be something in it.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Clean the inside of the shaft with IPA. It is pure alcohol and leaves no residue. Watch the point fit. If it is too loose hot melt, which is not a structurally strong glue, will fail if pulled hard. If the fit is too tight the glue may be scraped off during insertion and not bond to the shaft wall. Twisting the point during insertion may help.
 

Timid Toad

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Clean the inside of the shaft with IPA. It is pure alcohol and leaves no residue. Watch the point fit. If it is too loose hot melt, which is not a structurally strong glue, will fail if pulled hard. If the fit is too tight the glue may be scraped off during insertion and not bond to the shaft wall. Twisting the point during insertion may help.
And there was me thinking IPA was around 5% ;)
 

Rik

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Use plenty of glue. I find the tiny sticks which come with the points to be inadequate.
 

bimble

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I can think of some people who've said "if you're going to shoot 20th Century arrow technology into 14 Century target technology"... ;)

Personally I use regular hotmelt from your local DIY store, you'll get several dozens worth of glue for a fraction of the cost.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
I can think of some people who've said "if you're going to shoot 20th Century arrow technology into 14 Century target technology"... ;)
To which, you can reply: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and "Design and build your 20th Century arrow to be robust enough for all common use cases" :)

Yes, using good glue is key, and I've never relied on the tiny sticks supplied with arrow points.
 
T

the-poet

Guest
I'd bin the tungsten points, I've seen loads come out (usually in wood or straw)

You can't always be sure which competitions will use foam or not have wood behind foam and you'll never shoot well if you're worried each shot could cost you a tenner or worse if you shoot a pointless arrow (I'm sure you didn't, but then neither have i)

Easton themselves acknowledge they have no noticeable performance advantage so why spend the extra.
 

Rik

Supporter
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I'm currently using hybrid tungsten/steel points with no problems (and it's not because we use soft targets... Damn near rupture myself pulling the things, sometimes).
I use them because they are shorter than plain steel points. It's not about performance, it's about not having half a mile of pile sticking out the front...
 

Mark31121

Member
Ironman
I'd bin the tungsten points, I've seen loads come out (usually in wood or straw)

You can't always be sure which competitions will use foam or not have wood behind foam and you'll never shoot well if you're worried each shot could cost you a tenner or worse if you shoot a pointless arrow (I'm sure you didn't, but then neither have i)

Easton themselves acknowledge they have no noticeable performance advantage so why spend the extra.
The problem is if you're shooting into straw (especially hard straw) with the stainless points you're at a significant risk of splitting the shaft of the arrow. you can usually retrieve the points using a pair of pliers, but can't un-split a shaft.

I found out about shooting into straw the hard way - two shafts in a single session. I will admit that some people don't seem to have a problem though.
 

bimble

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To which, you can reply: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and "Design and build your 20th Century arrow to be robust enough for all common use cases" :)
we don't need these new fangled wheels things to help move stuff... carrying it works fine... after all, if it ain't broke... ;)

I actually have a set of fmj's (aluminimum on the outside) in case I go to a shoot that is still shot on straw. I frankly refuse to shoot my X10's into straw.

While Easton acknowledge there is no difference in performance between SS and Tungsten points, when it comes to impacts, the tungsten points were designed for shooting into straw, because there was an increased risk of the SS points taking a bend (especially between the point head and shank). If you're shooting into foam, it matters not a jot which point you use.
 

geoffretired

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I use new fangled wheel things to move arrows at high speed and with less effort than dragging a stiff string on a stick to propel them slowly.
 

Murray

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Never had a problem with tungstens coming out, either with recurve or compound. Re-iterating a bit:
Make sure the inside of the shaft is clean
Make sure a decent fit
Use PLENTY of glue.
Make sure you put glue on the end of the point (the blunt end) as well as the shaft
Contrary to one of the posters here, I make sure the glue is soft, that way it won't get completely scraped off when inserted.

Tungsten points were originally used to minimise breakages of thin-wall shafts. The short insert length meant that he chances of the shaft bending around the end of the insert was reduced. They also change the FOC slightly, but I defy anyone to tell the difference in practice!
 

Vagabond

New member
...I recently attended a tournament and had 3 of my 12 arrows lose their points in the straw bosses...
Ouch! expensive! :weepy:

Just to emphasise what's already been said by others:

* Cleaning: Clean the tungsten point and inside the shaft with IPA....especially inside the shaft. You can buy it online quiet cheaply.
Cleaning with nail varnish remover can do more harm than good by leaving a residue on the 'cleaned' item, e.g. a layer of mineral oil or lanolin. Not good. See this link for more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_polish#Nail_polish_remover

The acetone in the remover will also damage (dissolve) plastics it comes into contact with, such as the arrow nock.

* Hot-melt: Avoid low-temperature hot-melt. I once calculated that there's enough energy in a flying recurve arrow to heat the stainless-steel point by 9 to 12 degrees C. The equivalent tungsten point would be over 3 times that: i.e. around +30C above ambient. And even hotter for a compound arrow.

-o-0-0-

V
 
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