[Horsebow] Hungarian Horsebow - best place to buy and glass fibre limbs or wood/horn limbs

BR-Archer

New member
Hi Guys :)

i was wondering, where is the best place to buy a kassai horsebow in the UK? i have had a look on the net and have found a website called bowshop.eu which is based in europe (austria/germany i think) but i dont wish to buy from a foreign website incase of returning items and/or fraud.....unless someone has used this website before and has had good feedback to share!

my second question is i have seen a hungarian horsebow on merlin website which i like but it has fibreglass limbs covered with leather, now i have little to no understanding of traditional bows as i have an olympic style recurve with carbon/wood limbs, i was looking for a "toy" bow which i could have fun with and shoot in the nfas, so i was wondering which material would be better in terms of permance and durability, glassfibre limbs or tradition wood/horn limbs

i would appreciate your knowledge and experience in this subject before i splash out on something that i may come to regret, the answers from these two questions will determine the coarse i take in buying my horsebow :bowarrow:

cheers :)
 

BillM

Member
I bought mine from Flagella Die through eBay and had no problem dealing with them. They were very helpful and answered several questions I put to them before I went ahead. Mine is yew over ash and coated in fibreglass with a leather grip although they do other combinations which can be seen on their website. It is rated at 52# but I reckon that I am pulling slightly less. I use it for field archery and it is light to carry. One thing you will need for field is matched arrows. I have some sets of arrows of different spine and they do fly differently and it can mean hitting the target or something else. The bow with delivery from Hungary was less than ?100 and I am pleased with it.

BillM
 

BR-Archer

New member
cool, thanks for that! i have looked on ebay for the kassai bow i wish to buy or considering at the moment, i found a supplier too on ebay, i was just wondering if there were any british retailers that did them. i will have a look at flagella die thanks mate :)

thankyou for you input, i am still open to more input/advice from others aswell so even if u think there are better bow manufacturers than kassai please let me know, im only stating kassai at the moment because of advice from a fellow archer who has one :)

cheers :)
 

ChakaZulu

New member
I would try a few bows if I were you. There are two basic kind of horsebow: static and working recurves. The static is like the Kassai bows: rigid tips that don't unbend as you draw. Working recurves unbend. They feel very different. Personally I hate the feel of static recurves. I always think it's worth trying both types before you buy.

Models to try include:
working: Kaya KTB/Windfighter, samick SKB/mind 50, Grozer pecheneg/old scythian
static: anything by Kassai, any of grozer's statics, toth

Horn/wood/sinew will outperform fibreglass but fibreglass is infinitely easier to look after. Also the traditional ones cost a fortune. If you have a spare ?500 lying around then look at a Saluki or else wait a few months for the Border Ghillie Dhu to come out.
 

BR-Archer

New member
Thanks for the advice its much appreciated! i have had a look at the bows you recommended and theres a couple that i like, i really havent got ?500+ for the saluki or border ghillie ghu, i wasn't really after a top/high performance horse bow, i was just after a fairly fast and straight shooting one preferably under ?300 shipped. After posting this thread ive researched into all trad horsebows and the one i now have my heart set on is the kassai panther as it has the classic C model shape unstrung and it considered accurate and reasonable fast, all in all with the extra decorations you can have on it, it seems to be the bow i was after!

i agree with what ur saying about the limb tips though, thats why the modern Olympic style recurves work that way too, but i was generally after a trad-looking one with static syiahs! ive had a look at ur videos and photos on the border ghillie dhu thread and that bow looks fantastic but as i said im not after a top performer, im currently shooting olympic style recurve in field at the moment with a vision to move into target next year aswell so im saving my expensive spending for then as i will be after a top end performer in that discipline. e.g. the hoyt ion-x with F7 limbs ?1000+

thanks for your help though and i am after trying a few horsebows out but i have yet to catch the archer at my club with his mongol style bow

anymore advice/tips/recommendations are still welcome too :)

cheers
 
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iggybod

Guest
Just my opinion you understand but what you want is...
A Kaya KTB - by far the best asiatic bow in your price bracket. Fast, smooth, no handshock; an absolute steal at around ?125.
Easton Powerflight Arrows 3" feathers
Kaya Thumbring (go on, give it a try!)

You can buy bow, arrows and thumbring in the UK. Try The Longbow Shop, Quicks, Archery World, Merlin for the Arrows...
 

BR-Archer

New member
Thanks for the advice, you've given me a tough choice here! I know this bow had been mentioned before by chakazulu and I had a quick look at it, but I've had an in depth look at it now n to be honest the more I look at it - the more I want it!! Lol :-/ so now I'm stuck between going traditional with wood and horn composite or this modern take on a horse bow with carbon wood n glass etc....... Can't argue with the price and if its as quick as everyone rates it, which I've read lots, then I could just get a decent 60#er and have a good looking bow that's cheap and fast

Hhmmmmm!!! Decisions decisions!! Lol!!! Thanks again for making it harder to choose haha :D

At least these are good difficult choices tho
 
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iggybod

Guest
Well, you might be able to get a horn bow at the very cheapest for around ?600, from Szimeiszter perhaps, but even if you want asiatic bows to become the focus of your shooting life I'd still start with a Kaya KTB. It's a good reference point for upgrades, it's faster & smoother than any bow I've tried of this broad type of more than double the price, and if you find it's not your game then you won't lose much on it when you sell.

Give it a go and why not try a thumb ring draw, too.
 

BR-Archer

New member
Yeah think I might give it a try with it being so cheap! Looks like you can get it with traditional stylings too which would be great! So what type of arrows do you shoot with it? Traditional, carbon or Ali?? :)
 
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iggybod

Guest
Arrows?

Carbon "Hunting" arrows, with field points, mostly. Powerflights are good enough at approx ?2.50 per shaft, Flatlines are similar in flight at ?2 more, a little lighter gn per inch but not noticeably better. No, not at all. They both take 3d nocks and cb points but don't come with them as bare shafts. You can pay a little more again for Bloodlines, a little more than that for Hexx and a little more still for Carbon Injexions (about ?7.60 each) which are slim and similar to ACCs in diameter and price but, and this is just an aesthetic thing for me, the carbons sound better than a/c or all alu. Harder to find if you lose 'em of course. Merlin Archery stock all of the above.

Don't know of anyone using alu arrows for this type of bow. Koreans use carbon arrows more than bamboo for their traditional archery these days I understand, just as they use different combinations of modern materials in their bows. And heck, if the bow is made from modern materials, which makes it low maintenance, why not the arrows? If I had a horn bow I would use wood or bamboo arrows no question but I don't plan to get one. Shoot what you want, that's the point, you're gonna be classed as barebow so why limit yourself to wooden arrows designed for modern, laminated victorian longbows.

If you are gonna try thumbring archery don't get a 60# bow straight away. Get a 40# which is plenty fast enough to begin with.

Use the easton shaft selector to find the right spine but note that if you shoot thumb release you have a greater spread of possible spines because paradox doesn't (really) come into it as the arrow rest on the other side of the bow i.e. if you draw with your right hand (or thumb) then the arrow rests on the right side of the bow, the other thumb becoming a natural arrow rest.
If you shoot med style then follow easton's advice.
OK?
 

BR-Archer

New member
Yeah this is all great advice! Exactly what I wanted to know! Ill be buying a 60# and shooting it med for now, I will have a go at thumb draw release later down the line as 60# will be a step up for me for the med release, like I said I wasn't going into horse bow style 100% for now, I just wanted it as a fun bow with a decent amount of speed/accuracy. Ill have a look at both wooden arrows and carbon as I want to have a go at making my own woods as I've only built my carbons as of yet! I've heard the hexx arrows are great and I entered a comp to win a dozen but to no success so prob have a look at them first!

Thanks for your help anyways, it's always nice to have advice from someone with some amount of knowledge before buying as not to make a mistake!

Just out of curiosity, what horse bow do you shoot? And which is the next step up in the kaya ktb range?

Cheers :)
 
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iggybod

Guest
*Bugbear* :soapbox:
It's funny how everybody says these bows "look fun." I would say that if one is not having fun shooting recurve or compound then mate, why bother, unless one is training for an Olympic medal. I'd also ask whether one might be inferring that such bows as the Kaya are somehow not serious, or that those that shoot them are not serious about their hobby. I might enquire what is more serious, shooting with or shooting without all the allen keyed support used by the modern recurve or compound bow? Rambo aside, I don't know of any serious use of a bow in history that utilised a sight, never mind long rods, v-bars, pressure buttons or clickers. Do you? I'm sure those on the receiving end at Mohacs, Agincort or Carrhae didn't think "Those bows look fun!"
*Rant over*

And each to their own, of course.

Yes, "...some amount of knowledge..." would be about right.
I have shot quite a few bows of this type but I've shot the Kaya KTB the most and it's my favourite so far.

Next step up? Hmmm... a Hwarang, a Saluki Hybrid of some kind..? The latest version of the Grozer Biocomposite Crimean-Tartar is a nice shooter (my friend has just got one) and the Biocomposite Short Hungarian is apparently pretty fast & smooth, too, as well as being close to the original Magyar design, if that's important to you. Not sure these last two would be better than the Kaya KTB though.
 

BR-Archer

New member
ok ill clarify exactly what i mean to not cause any offense if anyone may misinterpret what im after or mean in this.......

my main discipline is olympic style recurve, and no im not training for the olympics but i am looking to move into target archery next year as the majority of this year has been lost to poor health (or i would of done already) of which i am still suffering with and will continue to untill the latter part of the year . this discipline is my main focus, which i am constantly trying to find better ways to improve my equipment, technique and fine tune my accuracy and develop myself as a recurve archer. unfortunately with these type of bows they come in a million pieces with as many accessories and after 20 mins of putting it together i have to then spend another 10-15 fine tuning pressure button, sights etc to get it going where i want, this is not to mention the checking of all bolts on the limbs and riser are secured (with about 20 different allen-keys) before each use.....

ive found that repeating this process when shooting at my local club, when my main intention that day is to socialize with my fellow club members, becomes tedious and generally gets annoying ("not fun") when im not really concerned with shooting a tight group and marking down all my scores like i would do in a serious practice session (which i think is best done on my own as to focus more on my shots and not talk to others) i was just after a lightweight bow thats fast/accurate that i could pick up, string it and nock an arrow then fire without adding several attachments and over stressing at what scores ive hit etc

i chose the horse bow discipline as a secondary side project because i love the look of the bows, the way they shoot and a couple of club members have them! i wanted a horse bow because i wanted to try traditional styles of archery that i would find more "fun" and challenging than shooting something that has bags of technology in it. i would of considered a longbow but ive heard they can be difficult to look after and afterall not as appealing as the look of a horse bow (in my opinion)

i admire anyone who can shoot this discipline in its rawest form (from horseback) and anyone who can master it from standing upright aswell, but what i was saying is- i do not wish to become a master of it - as some do, i wish to try and master my first discipline and use this side project to help me understand different types and styles of archery, and pretty much just have a crack at it! just because i do not wish to take traditional horsebow archery as seriously as others does not mean i do not respect every aspect of it!

i was refering to "some amount of knowledge" as i have absolutely none in this field and value an experienced archers advice before diving in. i respect and admire the kaya ktb bow for looks and performance but i was just wondering if this was a lower end bow or if there were anymore in its range as i have no knowledge of it at all. i may have referred to getting a horse bow as a "toy" in a previous post but my meaning was different to what u may have thought i meant by that word, i just meant this as a way to describe what i intended for its use - a non primary use of the bow.

im sorry if anyone misunderstood what i meant and my intentions for buying a horse bow

Next step up? Hmmm... a Hwarang, a Saluki Hybrid of some kind..? The latest version of the Grozer Biocomposite Crimean-Tartar is a nice shooter (my friend has just got one) and the Biocomposite Short Hungarian is apparently pretty fast & smooth, too, as well as being close to the original Magyar design, if that's important to you. Not sure these last two would be better than the Kaya KTB though.
cool ill have a look at them, even though i have no where near the money to pay for one lol :D
 
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iggybod

Guest
Just spent half an hour writing an exhaustive reply, and when I clicked on reply I’d been logged out and it was lost. Ah well...


The gist


I realise you didn’t mean it that way, but I get the “fun’ thing a lot. Let’s agree to call shooting these bows “seriously good fun.”


What do you call a man with a thousand allen keys?




I am just a beginner to archery, at just over 12 months, only two months of which shooting med style. Thumbring is it for me. Too much faff in recurves & compounds, and sights are a wrong turn in the development of archery IMHO. I know because of injury, infirmity or disability, compounds may be the only option for some and I’m glad they exist. All archery is good, especially as it’s not golf.


I much prefer the look & feel of shorter asiatic bows (“horsebows” is misleading).


My step-up is a Saluki Hybrid Indo-Persian (due this winter) plus the new longer version of the KTB from Quicks, Kayas official UK reps (due early autumn).




I hope your health improves steadily and solidly, like your shooting.




p.s.


For a longer asiatic bow I heartily recommend the Centaur Hun. Fast & stable. And beautifully finished.
 

BR-Archer

New member
Thanks again for your advice on these style of bows, I'm pretty much sold on the kaya ktb now haha! For ?125 you can't really beat it, as previously stated!

I like the other two bows you've both stated in the last two posts, if I really enjoy this style I may fork out for high performance one like you've mentioned but not for a while, hopefully because ill be enjoying the ktb too much, but probably because I can't afford! Lol

Quick question, do either of you use or have used bamboo arrows and if so where do u buy them from in the uk, I won't be buying these at first but would like to try them when I've got the thumb draw working well

Cheers :D
 

ChakaZulu

New member
I shot bamboo for a couple of years. Still do occasionally. I bought the shafts from China and made them up myself. I have a load of shafts left so pm me if you want to buy some.
 

BR-Archer

New member
Cool! Ill bear that in mind thanks! It won't be any time soon though (2-3 months at least)

Ill get the bow sorted first then the carbons I plan on shooting then ill be in touch :)
 
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iggybod

Guest
Only tried a couple in store at the Longbow Shop that they had put together - they sell the constituent parts rather than complete arrows. Very nice they were too. You can get them complete here in the UK or from China via evilBay.

I digress but I feel the correct spined woodies are too bulky/heavy for the Kaya but are fine with my Centaur Hun.
I have shot Powerflights mostly but have am trying quite skinny Carbon Injexions 480s right now. They hold their line better in the breeze but not sure if I prefer them yet.
 

ChakaZulu

New member
The Kaya gets its speed through low mass rather than high energy storage so yes, it is sensitive to heavier arrows.
 
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