Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28
Discuss Mongolian bow vs English Longbow at the English Longbow within Archery Interchange UK Forums; Hi all, I've recently become very interested in the Mongolian bow. I have read that ...
  1. #1
    In the Blue
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    187
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mongolian bow vs English Longbow

    Hi all,

    I've recently become very interested in the Mongolian bow. I have read that it was faster and more powerful than the English longbow. I have read before how powerful the old longbows were, so has anyone ever tried comparing a Mongolian bow and an English longbow of equal pondages to see ?






  2. Advertisements like those above are essential to keep AIUK running. If you'd like to remove the Google and Ebay adverts and help us meet our running costs, please consider subscribing for only 1.50 per month. Thank you!
     

  3. #2
    Neo
    Neo is offline
    It's an X Neo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stockton On Tees
    Posts
    1,948
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    26
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Heed View Post
    Hi all,

    I've recently become very interested in the Mongolian bow. I have read that it was faster and more powerful than the English longbow. I have read before how powerful the old longbows were, so has anyone ever tried comparing a Mongolian bow and an English longbow of equal pondages to see ?
    Shot a clout round today. I was shooting a Sammick SKB at 45lb (actually weighs 38lb) I was easily reaching at 180 yards with lots of room for chucking the arrows closer towards 200 yards. I was shooting 2016 Gamegetters with 2 inch fletchings and standard 70ish grain points.

    Next to me a fellow archer was shooting a 70lb Longbow with POC shafts and was falling 15 yards short most of the day.

    My SKB is very fast, powerful, does not stack right up to 32inches.
    I used to own a 50lb Bickerstaff longbow and wouldnt swap my SKB for one now. I love my Sammick!

    All for around 90 delivered you cant go wrong. Set of arrows (Gamegetters) for 25 (shafts) full set up including delivery for under 140. (bowsports)
    .................................................. ...................
    Buckle your seat belt, Dorothy, because Kansas is going bye-bye...

    .................................................. ...................

  4. #3
    It's an X Del the Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Harlow Essex
    Posts
    2,927
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 179 Times in 164 Posts
    If the two bows have the same draw length and draw weight, the Mongolian (or any Asiatic recurve) should store more energy (and thus shoot further/hit harder assuming identical arrows) as it has a higher initial draw weight due to the recurve and the higher force required to string it to bracing height. E.G at say 10" draw the Asiatic bow may be 35 lb vs the longbow's 8lb even though the final draw weight will be the same.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    You can see from the graph (2 of my bows) how the Asiatic style starts at a higher draw weight (although in this case it finishes lower than the longbow). The Area under the curve represents the energy stored. If you imagine the graph for the Asiatic bow shifted up so that the final draw weights were the same, you can see there would be much more stored energy, (and the figures I suggested would be about right).

    Del
    Health Warning:- These posts may contain traces of nut.

  5. #4
    In the Red
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    324
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
    Neo Asiatic (and other) recurves and afbs, especially those made with modern materials are always likely to outperform wooden elbs, but don't forget that elbs can be very slow or impressively fast according to design.

    The flight record for a 35lb elb is 260yards; shooting a very light arrow, I admit. It's easy to make a laminated wooden bow of around 40lbs shoot an ordinary arrow such as your gamegetters 180yards. It wouldn't compete on price, though.

    Design is the key, more than draw weight. The 70lb longbow did poorly because it or the arrows or both, were too heavy for the energy that was being stored. Not knocking alternatives to longbows here, but wood is still great engineering stuff.

    Btw, might be fun to shoot a wooden flight arrow through the Samick, see what happens. David

  6. #5
    It's an X Del the Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Harlow Essex
    Posts
    2,927
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 179 Times in 164 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Shot a clout round today. I was shooting a Sammick SKB at 45lb (actually weighs 38lb) I was easily reaching at 180 yards with lots of room for chucking the arrows closer towards 200 yards.
    Next to me a fellow archer was shooting a 70lb Longbow with POC shafts and was falling 15 yards short most of the day.
    That 70lb Longbow must be poor if it can't make 200yards...
    Were you shooting into a hurricane?
    Del
    Health Warning:- These posts may contain traces of nut.

  7. #6
    It's an X I've taken part in an AIUK American Shoot.I've taken part in an AIUK Ironman Shoot.AIUK subscriber. darthTer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    East Kilbride
    Posts
    4,234
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    185
    Downloads
    87
    Uploads
    1
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 59 Times in 53 Posts
    Comparing 2 bows at a recent clout shoot....

    1. 45# Samick SLB II AFB
    2. 45# Bickerstaff long bow (don't know exact materials - ask Woodsplitter)

    Arrows, were fairly similar - I think Woddsplitters being slightly shorter possibly. 4" feathers and heavy points.

    Shooting @ 180yards...My flatbow was reaching fairly easily, however, Woodplitters long bow struggled to hit the distance.

    In my favour, my DL is slightly longer then WS, and my AFB containg more modern materials ie. glass fibre.

    I don't know how my 50# Hungarian compares to WS's long bow @ distance.

    Leia: "Aren't you a little fat to be a Stormtrooper???"
    Luke: "Then stay here and rot ya stuck up b**ch!!!!"

  8. #7
    In the White edmundblack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Zummerzet
    Posts
    15
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I've got a hickory/lemonwood longbow and a Scythian, both 45lbs at 28". Firing the same arrows from them, there is clearly two different trajectories of the arrows. The Scythian is certainly quicker on the loose and hits them in harder than the longbow.

    That's my experience anyway.

  9. #8
    In the Blue
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    122
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    3
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Del the cat's graph works well at showing the difference.

    The Mongolian recurves tend to be very powerful at low draw - so give a nice push off the bow. where as a longbow can drop in weight at low draw.

    This is why a longbow that is too long - isn't such a great thing, as the limbs are hardly working.

    Check out this pic of this turkish bow (which has many similarities to a mongolian)



    Those limbs have already bent round a heck of a long way - that's a lot of stored energy!!!

    Wood itself struggles to offer this level of performance - hence why the mongolian bows have fish bone and skin to reinforce the bendy bits.

    D

  10. #9
    It's an X Del the Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Harlow Essex
    Posts
    2,927
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 179 Times in 164 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by edmundblack View Post
    Firing
    ???? Sorry don't understand the term

    Del
    Health Warning:- These posts may contain traces of nut.

  11. #10
    In the White edmundblack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Zummerzet
    Posts
    15
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Longer arrow, rag, tar, match.

    That's a nice Turkish bow there on page one. Might stick my Scythian up. :P

    Edit - here it is. If anyone is ever in any doubt about getting one, do. They are immense fun to use, and the sight of many faces going green with envy is also nice.


  12. #11
    It's an X AIUK subscriber.
    English Bowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Portsmouth
    Posts
    1,285
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    10
    Uploads
    3
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Heed View Post
    Hi all,

    I've recently become very interested in the Mongolian bow. I have read that it was faster and more powerful than the English longbow. I have read before how powerful the old longbows were, so has anyone ever tried comparing a Mongolian bow and an English longbow of equal pondages to see ?
    All things being equal you'd expect the Mongolian bow to be faster than an English Longbow, as said above. I do find, however, that the arrow will play a bigger part in this than a lot of people realise, also the quality of the bow. A top quality longbow will be faster than a poorly made Mongolian. As with all things archery there are as many answers as there are people who shoot the things, I personally find the Longbow easier to shoot accurately, so although I have a Mongolian bow, it doesn't see the light that often, I'm too busy shooting in the longbow!

  13. #12
    It's an X Yew Selfbow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,305
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    6
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
    Alot depends on the construction materials used in the bow. Modern synthetic bow making materials have better mechanical properties than natural woods. As for performance my 78lb longbow sends a 28gramm arrow 316 yards, thats good enough for me
    Irony's free, sarcasm you pay for

  14. #13
    In the White
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    34
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Does anyone know what the average poundage of the historical Mongolian bow, used from horseback, was? Surely being on a moving horse must limit the amount of strength you could put into your draw?

    In terms of design, superior and inferior are task specific evaluations. The elb was designed to allow hundreds of occasional infantrymen to launch arrows en masse at armoured knights. Mongol recurves used en masse might have been even more devastating, but the more complex design would prohibit mass production. The elb could be said to be superior to the native American short, d-bow, but it wouldn't necessarily be a better tool for hunting small game in a forest. A historical bow should be judged in its historical context.

  15. #14
    It's an X I've taken part in an AIUK American Shoot.I've taken part in an AIUK Ironman Shoot.AIUK subscriber. darthTer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    East Kilbride
    Posts
    4,234
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    185
    Downloads
    87
    Uploads
    1
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 59 Times in 53 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by calib View Post
    Does anyone know what the average poundage of the historical Mongolian bow, used from horseback, was? Surely being on a moving horse must limit the amount of strength you could put into your draw?
    I think (from my reading...) one of the problems is that a complete bow has never been found - due to the wood rotting etc. Therefore, much if the design that we see now, is almost educated guess work. Obviously, what poundage these folk shot is guess work as well....

    When you consider that a lot of the archers from that part of the world basically lived on their horses with their bows, I would assume that they could comfortabley shoot a fairly high poundage bow, however, I would doubt it would be the 100+lbs that the longbow men were using.

    Leia: "Aren't you a little fat to be a Stormtrooper???"
    Luke: "Then stay here and rot ya stuck up b**ch!!!!"

  16. #15
    It's an X I've taken part in an AIUK Ironman Shoot. Rabid Hamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The naughty step
    Posts
    2,461
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Blog Entries
    21
    Downloads
    25
    Uploads
    0
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 38 Times in 36 Posts
    there are some historians who put forward the idea that horse bows had just as high poundages as longbows (turks used to be nomadic horsebowmen - later turkish bows were up in the 70-100lbs range even 150lbs).

    However if you look logically, the horseman can ride up to within 50yrds of his opponent (be he heavy cavalry or foot), shoot a quiver of arrows at close range while trotting around in a big circle and then naff off before the foot or heavy horse can retaliate. He doesnt need to reach out very far to touch someone. Mixed missle (bow and dart) and spear troops like byzantine Skutatoi could stand off horsebow armed troops but this technique wasnt very common.

    Some historians have put forward 50lbs as the absolute max weight required for horsebows. You really can pick your proof by picking your historian.
    Shoot and die. Don't shoot ... also die!



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. English longbow vs. Viking longbow?
    By Russ in forum General Archery Discussion & News
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-09-09, 05:10 PM
  2. [English Longbow] The English Longbow
    By Eclipse in forum English Longbow
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-09-08, 12:55 PM
  3. English longbow.
    By Tom Goshawk lad in forum Traditional Bows
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-09-08, 09:51 PM
  4. English Longbow V.'s American Flatbow
    By Jimbo in forum Traditional Bows
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 30-09-06, 09:33 PM
  5. [SOLD] EandW madle english longbow
    By adamk in forum Classified Ads: Buy, Sell, Request
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-11-05, 04:19 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •