[English Longbow] Shooting with a Pinch Grip

blakey

Active member
I've been playing around with pinch grips recently. This is a grip that seems to be fairly prevalent amongst primitive archers. It's used a lot down here in New Guineau. Conventionally it wouldn't be thought to be much cop for ELB, because of the relatively higher draw weights. However it has a couple of advantages. For me it avoids much strain on the fingers, because there's no hook. So if you've got tendon issues, arthritic fingers, etc it's a bonus. the other thing is that it reduces paradox because there's not a lot of sideways pressure. The biggest con seems to be the limited draw weight. But yesterday I saw an idea on Paleoplanet that gets round that. You make up a half inch wooden bead and put it on a D-loop string around the nock points. Then you set the arrow and draw by gripping the bead. It's brilliant. The user was saying he has no probs drawing 70 lbs. I made one up and was playing with 30 lbs today. I'm going to show it to a couple of old mates who cannot shoot fingers anymore. Hopefully it might get them going. If anyone's interested I'll attempt to post some pics. :)
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Interesting. I'll have to try it on some of my short draw bows.
Del
PS. If the bead (assuming it's wooden) splits and gets embedded in the target, does that count as a hit? ;)
 

jbridges

New member
I've been playing around with pinch grips recently. This is a grip that seems to be fairly prevalent amongst primitive archers. It's used a lot down here in New Guineau. Conventionally it wouldn't be thought to be much cop for ELB, because of the relatively higher draw weights. However it has a couple of advantages. For me it avoids much strain on the fingers, because there's no hook. So if you've got tendon issues, arthritic fingers, etc it's a bonus. the other thing is that it reduces paradox because there's not a lot of sideways pressure. The biggest con seems to be the limited draw weight. But yesterday I saw an idea on Paleoplanet that gets round that. You make up a half inch wooden bead and put it on a D-loop string around the nock points. Then you set the arrow and draw by gripping the bead. It's brilliant. The user was saying he has no probs drawing 70 lbs. I made one up and was playing with 30 lbs today. I'm going to show it to a couple of old mates who cannot shoot fingers anymore. Hopefully it might get them going. If anyone's interested I'll attempt to post some pics. :)
Blakey, I recently did some tests on different bow strings. In particular looking at string weight. What I discovered was that adding weight to the center of the string is about the worst thing you can do. It affects the bow's efficiency (i.e. how much potential energy is transferred to the kinetic energy of the arrow). It is diffcult to give you an idea of how much because it depends on your bow, the weight of your arrow. I would however say that a 9" serving uses 8' of thread and can weigh up to 12 grains in weight. Two brass crimp nocks weigh approx. 10grains. For my bows and my arrows, these two factors accounted (if memory serves -excuse the pun - me correctly) for approx 2-3% reduction in bow efficiency. So assuming you bow, with your arrow shoots at 150fps, 22grains of additional weight in the middle of the string will reduce your arrow speed by between 3 and 4.5fps. The effect seems to be worse for lighter arrows than for heavier ones.

Depending on the length of the D loop, the amount you bend the bow will reduce so you will store less potential energy too.
To overcome the reduction in potential energy stored and efficiency you probably need to shoot a higher poundage bow.

You might want to consider losing the D loop and thread the bead directly on to the bow string. When choosing the bead, use the lightest material you can find. Another suggestion is to compensate for the bead by making the bow string from a different material. I know a lot of traditional archers stick to B55 rather than use one of the fast flight based materials. Since adding weight slows the bow down, you can probably get away with speedening it up again using a modern material. Depends on how risk adverse you are as it is your bow.

Part of my string expereiments included crimping bits of lead to my bow string. They hurt like hell when they came off the string so be carefull with using a wooden bead. It might split and then you will have created a stone-throwing bow.

Have fun tinkering.

P.S. If you manage to get access to a chronograph, I would love to know what the drop in arrow speed is. Otherwise, let me know what you come up with and I can test on one of my bows and measure the difference for you.
 

blakey

Active member
Blakey, I recently did some tests on different bow strings. In particular looking at string weight. What I discovered was that adding weight to the center of the string is about the worst thing you can do. It affects the bow's efficiency (i.e. how much potential energy is transferred to the kinetic energy of the arrow). It is diffcult to give you an idea of how much because it depends on your bow, the weight of your arrow. I would however say that a 9" serving uses 8' of thread and can weigh up to 12 grains in weight. Two brass crimp nocks weigh approx. 10grains. For my bows and my arrows, these two factors accounted (if memory serves -excuse the pun - me correctly) for approx 2-3% reduction in bow efficiency. So assuming you bow, with your arrow shoots at 150fps, 22grains of additional weight in the middle of the string will reduce your arrow speed by between 3 and 4.5fps. The effect seems to be worse for lighter arrows than for heavier ones.

Depending on the length of the D loop, the amount you bend the bow will reduce so you will store less potential energy too.
To overcome the reduction in potential energy stored and efficiency you probably need to shoot a higher poundage bow.

You might want to consider losing the D loop and thread the bead directly on to the bow string. When choosing the bead, use the lightest material you can find. Another suggestion is to compensate for the bead by making the bow string from a different material. I know a lot of traditional archers stick to B55 rather than use one of the fast flight based materials. Since adding weight slows the bow down, you can probably get away with speedening it up again using a modern material. Depends on how risk adverse you are as it is your bow.

Part of my string expereiments included crimping bits of lead to my bow string. They hurt like hell when they came off the string so be carefull with using a wooden bead. It might split and then you will have created a stone-throwing bow.

Have fun tinkering.

P.S. If you manage to get access to a chronograph, I would love to know what the drop in arrow speed is. Otherwise, let me know what you come up with and I can test on one of my bows and measure the difference for you.
Hi jb, I realise that this would slow the cast down, possibly as much as 10 fps. But what the technique offers is the possibility of shooting with fingers for those who cannot. We have a few members whose hands are wrecked because of excess physical work. Tendons shortening and locking up is the worst. This might give them a way of carrying on. Of course the obvious way forward is to shoot a compound with a release aid. But one of our members who's an ex-national recurver might like the pinch grip? The intriguing thing for me is what the judges are going to say?
I have wondered about the possibility of the bead splitting, and am thinking of seeing if I can make one up out of bone, or even plastic. I am going to post some pics today. Internet is finally speeding up! :)
 

blakey

Active member
cherokeebead.jpg

This is made of osage orange. Arrow sits between the double nocks and is gripped with the bead. Cheers
 

jbridges

New member
Hi blakey, the D loop lookes quite long. Not sure of your brace height but does it slap you on the back of the bow hand when you release?
 

blakey

Active member
Hi blakey, the D loop lookes quite long. Not sure of your brace height but does it slap you on the back of the bow hand when you release?
Hi jb, this is the one off Paleoplanet. The one I made up is shorter (and squarer because I was too excited to finish it properly). The fingers gripping the bead also grip the nock of the arrow at the same time on mine. Cheers
 

Phil Sheffield

New member
Hi jb, this is the one off Paleoplanet. The one I made up is shorter (and squarer because I was too excited to finish it properly). The fingers gripping the bead also grip the nock of the arrow at the same time on mine. Cheers
I'm fascinated and look forward to learning whether or not such a release aid is acceptable to those of the Mesozoic Era or has the addition of a simple wooden bead turned the bow into a compound?
 

AndyW

Well-known member
Hi blakey,
As a bit of an aside, why not use the D loop and a split bead to get the pinch draw. That way you haven't got it on the string to cause issues. What I mean is a sphere of whatever cut in half with a string recess in the middle - but you would need them attached to a wrist strap to stop the halves flying off.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
There is another way to use the pinch grip method.
I think it is/was called the Flinton flip.
It is a leather strap that folds around your little finger. The two ends pass towards your index finger and beyond on the palm side of the hand. One loose end wraps round the string below the arrow, from the left side and the other end wraps over the first from the right. The two are gripped as you would the string itself, but most of the bow's weight is taken by the strap,similar to a Concho style wrist release.
 
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