[American Flatbow] Arrow spine for Slick Stick bow?

Dhansak

Member
I will finally be ordering a Bodnik Slick Stick over the weekend and thought I may as well sort some arrow specifications out in preparation. I'd appreciate a sanity check and help for choosing shaft spine please.

In case you are not familiar with the model, the Slick Stick is a one-piece bamboo limbed 58" reflex-deflex, shoot off-the shelf bow. It will be 30lbs at 28". Recommended brace height 7.25"

My target recurve draw length is 28.5". As I will be trying a new anchor point for this trad bow, I would guess that the DL would change to about 29.5"

I plan to buy German Spruce 5/16 shafts and use them uncut at 32". No idea what grain points yet!

I mailed Bodnik with this query a few days ago but no reply yet; last time I queried them about something else they were really quick to reply but I guess they're snowed under at the moment. I went on to have a look at the Longbow Shop spine table and thought I was getting there until I noticed their chart referred to DL not arrow length and no reference to weight on the fingers..... so i do feel as if I'm guessing not making an educated choice...

Their table suggests, that for a 30-35lb bow in the American Flatbow/Fieldbow/Recurve group (all one category?!) with a draw of 29" -> 40/45lbs spine and 30" -> 45/50lb spine. Does this sound about right? If so I guess i would go for the higher rating?

I was further bemused by another shop web site saying take 5 to 10 lbs off the weight of the bow (unless they meant + instead of - lol).

I don't know what to believe - so all help appreciated!

Thanks :)
 

diacritica

Member
Hi Dhansak!

Going from 28.5" to 29.5" DL seems like a lot but if you know what you're doing then I would not go for 32" uncut shafts but perhaps 31".
Using Bearpaw's chart (they mention arrow length, not DL) you would be reading it directly as it's meant for high performance longbows, exactly what the Slick Stick is (my wife has one).
You would be looking at 30-35lbs and 31" arrow length. That yields 11/32 + 50-55 lbs with 100grs point and 4" fletching. My gut feeling is that this arrow is going to weight A LOT. Very stable, but also very slow.

I think that table is not that good with low poundage bows and long arrows/DL.

My suggestion is that you try either 5/16 40-45lbs spine with 70 grs points or 11/32 40-45 lbs spine with 100 grs points.
 

blakey

Active member
I will finally be ordering a Bodnik Slick Stick over the weekend and thought I may as well sort some arrow specifications out in preparation. I'd appreciate a sanity check and help for choosing shaft spine please.

In case you are not familiar with the model, the Slick Stick is a one-piece bamboo limbed 58" reflex-deflex, shoot off-the shelf bow. It will be 30lbs at 28". Recommended brace height 7.25"

My target recurve draw length is 28.5". As I will be trying a new anchor point for this trad bow, I would guess that the DL would change to about 29.5"

I plan to buy German Spruce 5/16 shafts and use them uncut at 32". No idea what grain points yet!

I mailed Bodnik with this query a few days ago but no reply yet; last time I queried them about something else they were really quick to reply but I guess they're snowed under at the moment. I went on to have a look at the Longbow Shop spine table and thought I was getting there until I noticed their chart referred to DL not arrow length and no reference to weight on the fingers..... so i do feel as if I'm guessing not making an educated choice...

Their table suggests, that for a 30-35lb bow in the American Flatbow/Fieldbow/Recurve group (all one category?!) with a draw of 29" -> 40/45lbs spine and 30" -> 45/50lb spine. Does this sound about right? If so I guess i would go for the higher rating?

I was further bemused by another shop web site saying take 5 to 10 lbs off the weight of the bow (unless they meant + instead of - lol).

I don't know what to believe - so all help appreciated!

Thanks :)
I used to shoot AFB 33 lbs @ 28". Easton do a Modern Longbow Chart, which will get you into the ball park for aluminium arrows. From memory mine shot 1612s to 1816s. I always used to buy and play with with a set of allies to get an idea of the tune before buying wood. I don't think you'll need much more than a 35-40 lbs spine. I assume you're changing from under the chin to corner of the mouth? That's not going to give you much more than half an inch extra. There are various spine calculators out there. Stu Millers Dynamic Spine is one. They allow for depth of shelf, etc. The taking 5 lbs off the weight of the bow is for ELB which requires a bender shaft. If by chance your shafts do end up weak, you can stiffen them up by shortening them to the back of the bow, and dropping point weight. The shorter the arrow the more distance you'll get with AFB. It's a bit of trial and error with woodies. Can you borrow and try at your local club? Good luck. Let us know how you get on. :)
 

blakey

Active member
Rose City Archery do spine charts. They specialise in Orford Cedar. They also do spine kits. :)
 

Dhansak

Member
diacritica and blakey - thank you for your helpful replies.

I was rummaging through the internet looking at many spine tables till I came across the bearpaw one on Sunday afternoon. I hadn't seen it on their shop site but it was prominent on their blog - doh.

Using that table I ordered shafts at 11/32 50-55lbs exactly as diacritica had seen on the table too. Wish I had waited a bit longer so I had seen both your replies guys! But was an eager beaver trying to order things before they went out of stock (see later!) Sigh - timing is everything lol. By the sound of it, a lighter spine would be better.... It didn't occur to me that the manufacturer's chart could be less applicable at the lighter end of things. I was hoping they had tested rather than extrapolated.

By the way you are both correct in highlighting the change of draw length being a bit much. Yes I will be changing anchor from chin to mouth and was being conservative in allowing an inch so I would not go unsafe by looking at arrows that were too short. Yep - still firmly in rookie-land here!

By the way blakey I did briefly look at Stu Miller's calculator - there were so many parameters I didn't know (or understand) I trembled in awe and moved on ....


But all is not yet lost. I did order a bundle of stuff from them other than the bow and shafts (much cheaper for the shafts than in the UK) and free postage for orders over 80 euros, so I naively order 24 shafts thinking all is well. Their website showed all my items as being in stock. However I have just received their invoice and it turns out that the bow and shafts aren't in stock after all.... (they haven't included those on the charges so all is kosher) just wish more suppliers kept their websites current on actual stock levels. Yes the web still says said items are available :(

Anyway will get in touch with them to change the spine of the shafts. Communication has not been brilliant over the past week so hope that I can get it all square. Luck being what it is, the shafts I ordered will come in stock overnight and get dispatched before we can talk. If I do end up lumbered with my original order could I bring the spine down enough by putting 125gr point on? Grasping at straws methinks!


Thanks again for your help - much appreciated :)
 

blakey

Active member
diacritica and blakey - thank you for your helpful replies.

I was rummaging through the internet looking at many spine tables till I came across the bearpaw one on Sunday afternoon. I hadn't seen it on their shop site but it was prominent on their blog - doh.

Using that table I ordered shafts at 11/32 50-55lbs exactly as diacritica had seen on the table too. Wish I had waited a bit longer so I had seen both your replies guys! But was an eager beaver trying to order things before they went out of stock (see later!) Sigh - timing is everything lol. By the sound of it, a lighter spine would be better.... It didn't occur to me that the manufacturer's chart could be less applicable at the lighter end of things. I was hoping they had tested rather than extrapolated.

By the way you are both correct in highlighting the change of draw length being a bit much. Yes I will be changing anchor from chin to mouth and was being conservative in allowing an inch so I would not go unsafe by looking at arrows that were too short. Yep - still firmly in rookie-land here!

By the way blakey I did briefly look at Stu Miller's calculator - there were so many parameters I didn't know (or understand) I trembled in awe and moved on ....


But all is not yet lost. I did order a bundle of stuff from them other than the bow and shafts (much cheaper for the shafts than in the UK) and free postage for orders over 80 euros, so I naively order 24 shafts thinking all is well. Their website showed all my items as being in stock. However I have just received their invoice and it turns out that the bow and shafts aren't in stock after all.... (they haven't included those on the charges so all is kosher) just wish more suppliers kept their websites current on actual stock levels. Yes the web still says said items are available :(

Anyway will get in touch with them to change the spine of the shafts. Communication has not been brilliant over the past week so hope that I can get it all square. Luck being what it is, the shafts I ordered will come in stock overnight and get dispatched before we can talk. If I do end up lumbered with my original order could I bring the spine down enough by putting 125gr point on? Grasping at straws methinks!


Thanks again for your help - much appreciated :)
A lot of the longbow spine charts work off a 125gr point as standard. Hopefully you can get the lighter spine and use lighter points. If you leave the shafts as long as possible that will also keep them weak. But they will be slower because of excess weight, plus if you use the arrow point as POA the longer the shaft the shorter the cast. Distance will need a short light shaft with points 70-90 gr. Good luck and let us know how you get on. :)
 

Dhansak

Member
Thanks blakey - I am going to call them shortly so fingers crossed.

By the way what do you consider to be a "long" distance in this context? I should have explained what my intentions for this bow are; I currently shoot target recurve (GNAS style) and am wrestling with target panic but slowly getting there.

The slick stick is planned for the completely different use. I plan to

a) have fun!
b) shoot "instinctive" (really badly for the several thousand arrows but hope to laugh a lot) so no gap or POA shooting per se
c) Shoot field with NFAS - so I would guess most frequent long distance would be about 50 yards?? Will shoot indoors at 20 yards in the winter.
d) spend a lot of time hunting for arrows in the underbrush :)

With this in mind, have I potentially scuppered myself with over-spining as much as I think I have?

Good news though - got another invoice this morning - the bow is there - yeehaa!!
 

blakey

Active member
Thanks blakey - I am going to call them shortly so fingers crossed.

By the way what do you consider to be a "long" distance in this context? I should have explained what my intentions for this bow are; I currently shoot target recurve (GNAS style) and am wrestling with target panic but slowly getting there!!
I was thinking 50M and over. I was watching a lady shooting a 35 lbs Bucktrail at a comp, and she was aiming at trees to get on the target at 50M. FITA Field, which is what I shoot sometimes, only goes to 40M, which isn't so bad. But it is surprising how much low poundage limits you. :)
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I was thinking 50M and over. I was watching a lady shooting a 35 lbs Bucktrail at a comp, and she was aiming at trees to get on the target at 50M. FITA Field, which is what I shoot sometimes, only goes to 40M, which isn't so bad. But it is surprising how much low poundage limits you. :)
FITA field goes out to 50m when shot to GNAS rules. In the UK Longbows and American Flatbows shoot from the blue pegs the same as Barebow. We don't use the yellow pegs.
 

diacritica

Member
Thanks blakey - I am going to call them shortly so fingers crossed.

By the way what do you consider to be a "long" distance in this context? I should have explained what my intentions for this bow are; I currently shoot target recurve (GNAS style) and am wrestling with target panic but slowly getting there.

The slick stick is planned for the completely different use. I plan to

a) have fun!
b) shoot "instinctive" (really badly for the several thousand arrows but hope to laugh a lot) so no gap or POA shooting per se
c) Shoot field with NFAS - so I would guess most frequent long distance would be about 50 yards?? Will shoot indoors at 20 yards in the winter.
d) spend a lot of time hunting for arrows in the underbrush :)

With this in mind, have I potentially scuppered myself with over-spining as much as I think I have?

Good news though - got another invoice this morning - the bow is there - yeehaa!!
That looks like a good plan to me :)

Yes, you definitely over-spinned those arrows but perhaps their length might compensate a bit. I Would save them for short range targets or practice range or you could simply sell them to other archers.

I have two 35 lbs AFB. A Falco Force and a Bucktrail. Both use the same premium arrows from Falco and they can reach 50m with some practice and <350 grain arrows (mine are 320 grain and fly beautifully) I shoot instinctive with slight peripheral vision on arrow point, I tried gap shooting and it was zero-fun.

Enjoy your Slick Stick, it is a wonderful bow! You can see it in action here Tirada Zombi en Basti?n de Alanos, inolvidable (scroll down for the video). Angela, my wife, shoots carbon arrows, though.
 

Dhansak

Member
Hi - great news! Got very specific with my requirements and conveyed them to Bearpaw asking for their recommendation, given that I would eventually be trimming down my arrows etc. They came back with 40-45lbs - and have changed the order accordingly. I have stuck with 11/32 as my nocks and points (100 grn) are all ordered to be that size.

Just need to wait for them to be in stock and the order will be complete - phew.

I can't thank you all enough for your help and guidance with this - you've been great :)

By the way - really liked your video diacritica! - if I can shoot half as well as your wife when I've had a couple of years practice I'll be a happy chap!
 

diacritica

Member
Hi - great news! Got very specific with my requirements and conveyed them to Bearpaw asking for their recommendation, given that I would eventually be trimming down my arrows etc. They came back with 40-45lbs - and have changed the order accordingly. I have stuck with 11/32 as my nocks and points (100 grn) are all ordered to be that size.

Just need to wait for them to be in stock and the order will be complete - phew.

I can't thank you all enough for your help and guidance with this - you've been great :)

By the way - really liked your video diacritica! - if I can shoot half as well as your wife when I've had a couple of years practice I'll be a happy chap!
Happy to help! So glad that you were able to change your order and, to be honest, happy to see that I was right with my suggestion, heehee :)
My wife is a great archer and she became that good in part thanks to the slick stick and choosing the appropriate poundage (25 lbs). She only needed one year to reach her level so you could do the same, best of luck!
 

Dhansak

Member
Much to my amazement the shafts arrived today - nothing else, just the shafts lol. I guess I'll be looking out for a delivery in the next few days.... who knows ?? :)

One last query (ok it probably won't be the last...). Am planning to make 2 sets of arrows from the shafts - one for indoors (20yds) and one for outdoors up to 50m I guess. I'm thinking of 4 inch fletching for indoors but don't know what to use for the outdoor set. I use tiny fletchings for my outdoor recurve xx75s but don't know what's appropriate for woodies. All suggestions gratefully received! FYI I prefer the shape of shields to parabolic and will be straight rather than helical fletching.

Another query (surprise, surprise!) - is it true you can make your own barred fletchings by using permanent marker on plain feathers (and have them look ok)?

Thanks.
 

diacritica

Member
Hi!

For your arrows, both indoors or outdoors I would go for 4" fletchings. Even 3" will do fine (my choice). Stay away from 5" for your setup and have all arrows be the same:) Barred fletchings using markers don't look good. It's quite tricky. I prefer to buy them already barred

Sent from my bq Aquaris 5 HD using Tapatalk
 

flint666

Member
If your on facebook come over and join the slick stick owners group lots of helpful people in there , some bloke called henery knows a lot about them..... :)
 

Dhansak

Member
Thanks diacritica - will stick to one configuration for all my arrows! Can't find what I like in 3" so will go for 4". Was just concerned that 4" might be too long to be ok for 50m. Will avoid the marker for barring too - arrows have to look good when I pull them out of the grass!

Hi flint666 - don't have a facebook account but maybe there's finally a good reason to get one :) Will investigate....

blakey - thanks for your reference to the Easton Modern Longbow spine chart earlier - if the bow arrives before I have completed some wooden arrows I now know which allies to play with to test the bow out!
 

blakey

Active member
Thanks diacritica - will stick to one configuration for all my arrows! Can't find what I like in 3" so will go for 4". Was just concerned that 4" might be too long to be ok for 50m. Will avoid the marker for barring too - arrows have to look good when I pull them out of the grass!

Hi flint666 - don't have a facebook account but maybe there's finally a good reason to get one :) Will investigate....

blakey - thanks for your reference to the Easton Modern Longbow spine chart earlier - if the bow arrives before I have completed some wooden arrows I now know which allies to play with to test the bow out!
You'll find that to get distance the shorter the fletch the better. I use 2" Gateway Rayzrs on one of my setups to get 60M. But the smaller the fletch the better the spine match needs to be. Long fletches are very forgiving of poor spine on the other hand. I'd just make up half a dozen at a time till you're clear about your spine and what length you'll be shooting. All great fun. :)
 

Dhansak

Member
Thanks blakey - will go slow and steady till I get to know what I'm doing.

Meanwhile - the bow has arrived :) I am being strong and holding off unboxing till my wife gets home as it's a present from her!

So - I have the bow and shafts, but no points or nocks etc yet. For some reason bearpaw have invoiced the order in 3 parts and only take payment for 2 of 3. Am in email conversation with them asking them to take payment for the 3rd part (point, nocks and bag) in the same way they did for the other 2 - weird.

You all know I have to shoot it ... as soon as possible.....! Do you think my wifes 30-35lbs POC arrows would be safe for a couple of shots?; or just shoot my xx75 1916s (plastic vanes as I have no feathers yet...)

This is not in the least frustrating :) - but in a good way - I have a Slick Stick! :) :)
 

diacritica

Member
Thanks blakey - will go slow and steady till I get to know what I'm doing.

Meanwhile - the bow has arrived :) I am being strong and holding off unboxing till my wife gets home as it's a present from her!

So - I have the bow and shafts, but no points or nocks etc yet. For some reason bearpaw have invoiced the order in 3 parts and only take payment for 2 of 3. Am in email conversation with them asking them to take payment for the 3rd part (point, nocks and bag) in the same way they did for the other 2 - weird.

You all know I have to shoot it ... as soon as possible.....! Do you think my wifes 30-35lbs POC arrows would be safe for a couple of shots?; or just shoot my xx75 1916s (plastic vanes as I have no feathers yet...)

This is not in the least frustrating :) - but in a good way - I have a Slick Stick! :) :)
Your wife's arrows should be safe as long as your draw length says so :) Don't expect great tuning but at least you can feel the bow and play a bit with it! I wouldn't be using the plastic vanes, though, the slick stick's window is rather slim and unforgiving.
 

Dhansak

Member
Thanks diacritica - my wife's wooden arrows should be fine for my drawlength - to the chin anyway .... will be careful and check what's happening!

Meanwhile i have a lot of string twisting to do .. have to increase the brace height by over an inch. Also I seem to be missing a shelf rest - have just got the arrow plate. Will check through all the packaging and make sure. Having said that it might be a one piece shelf/plate felt plate - am squinting at you tube videos trying to figure it out! The bearpaw site does have 2 individual pieces listed though.

It's a lovely delicate looking bow - looking forward to trying it out!
 
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