Arrow clearance / spine issue

Dr. B

New member
Hi everyone.
I've been having this problem for a few months now, but haven't been shooting all that much in that time, so haven't been able to spend enough time trying to resolve it.
(If that makes sense).
I shoot recurve, and had been slowly improving, with handicap dropping below 40, mid - high 30s being shot in practice shoots (just to demonstrate I'm not a total beginner).
I had been having a very occasional problem with arrows catching the arrow rest and stripping or damaging a fletching. This happened maybe once every 3 or 4 dozen arrows.
After a bit of a break and not shooting much, this began to happen more often. Probably I lost some strength and technique and some mismatch in the arrows was now becoming more evident I thought.
Anyway, I have spent time trying to tune out the clearance problems - decrease poundage (limbs are at lowest setting now), decrease brace height. Nothing has really worked.

Below is a photo of the effects of a few months of shooting like this. Note the marks on the arrow rest and even the clicker. Even now it doesn't occur every arrow, but maybe 1 in 3, so there is probably some technical flaw involved, although I don't think the arrow tuning should be so borderline that half my arrows hit the riser!
IMAG1026.jpg
The thing that's stopped me from just going out and buying arrows that suit, is that I thought I had erred on the side of too stiff when I bought these, but surely if they're catching the rest, they're too whippy.
Anyway, here are the measurements:
Arrow length = 31.5".
Bow = 38/39#.
Spine = 500 (ACC 3-28).

This should put the required arrows in the T8/T9 range, but I was told that cheaper limbs like mine aren't so efficient, so go a spine point down, so they fall in the T7/T8 category. Actually the 500s are in both of these categories.
So, my plan is to get a few arrows made up exactly the same as these, but in 440 spine (3-39).

Before anyone says, I only have 1/2" overhang past the arrow rest, so can't really stiffen these by cutting them.
So, unless I have made terrible errors with my calculations, does buying arrows a spine point up seem reasonable?
 

Timid Toad

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Right. First thoughts. You arrows don't look on paper to be too weak. I'm using 500 spine with 29.5" arrow with 43lbs otf, Border Hex 7.5. What brand of limbs are you using? I ask because conventional profile limbs fit *reasonably* with the Easton charts, Uukha are a bit off and Border need much stiffer spines as they are considerably faster.
Arrows can strike the riser/rest etc if they are too stiff as well as weak.
What is your brace height?
Your rest. Hmm. I don't like that sort. I like a wire flipper rest type. I don't like wrap around rests either. Spig Ironman 2 is about ?11. Very robust (never broken one) light action and completely folds flat. I'm shooting X10s, field arrows and 2315 indoors. All work with this rest.
Just making suggestions for you to think about.
 

Dr. B

New member
Thanks for the reply Timid Toad.
The reason I haven't already gone and changed arrows is yes, they don't seem like they should be out much!
Limbs are W&W Pro Accent, not top of the range kit.
I have a magnetic rest, but didn't really think that would be the issue. I could fit it to see.
Tbh, I have fiddled with so many settings I may reset things to somewhat mid position and try again. Push the centre shot out a bit maybe?
Brace height is 24cm, but I have raised it to 25 and lowered it to around 22cm with not much difference.
 

Timid Toad

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Your bow is a 70"? So BH should be between 23 and 26cm, when the limbs are max out. If your arrows are on the weak side pushing centre shot out won't help. So set everything back to mid position. Change one thing at a time, and try a lightweight, flat wire flipper rest.
 

Dr. B

New member
Yes, 70".
OK, will set everything back to mid position and try things out again.
However, I've been fiddling with this on and off since about May now, and nothing's working.
I think I should probably get a few arrows made a spine up or down and just see if that helps.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Bareshaft tune, you can't say for certain if your arrows are wippy or stiff until you have set up your nocking point height. then see where your bare shaft is landing. Also get rid of the plastic arrow rest and get a flipper rest and button.
Read the Easton tuning guide and follow the instructions for bare shaft tuning.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Firstly, you can try turning your nocks a little to align the fletchings slightly differently to the traditional alignment. That's sometimes necessary.

Secondly, I used to use a Hoyt plastic rest for years with no issues at all. Some top archers, including Koreans, have also been known to do so. By all means replace it if you fancy something adjustable or a bit more solid, but they do work.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Firstly, you can try turning your nocks a little to align the fletchings slightly differently to the traditional alignment. That's sometimes necessary.

Secondly, I used to use a Hoyt plastic rest for years with no issues at all. Some top archers, including Koreans, have also been known to do so. By all means replace it if you fancy something adjustable or a bit more solid, but they do work.
It all depends on the riser 'cut out' . A small cut out can mean that your plastic rest will always push the arrow out too far. a large cut out can mean the arrow rest even with the foam pad cannot push the arrow out enough to get a reasonable centre shot.
Sooner or later that plastic arrow rest will break just when you don't want it to, like when you have just shot 5 tens.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
It all depends on the riser 'cut out' . A small cut out can mean that your plastic rest will always push the arrow out too far. a large cut out can mean the arrow rest even with the foam pad cannot push the arrow out enough to get a reasonable centre shot.
Sooner or later that plastic arrow rest will break just when you don't want it to, like when you have just shot 5 tens.
That's why you can use additional thinner pads to get the position right on over cut windows. On narrow windows i.e wooden trainer bows it is in most cases the only rest that gives you arrow clearance and for some beginners keeping it simple by not fitting a button as with most(not all) flipper rests the back end sticks out too far as the wire closes again messing up arrow clearance.
The rests do break, and so do wire rests some more frequently than others - but nobody in their right mind would go to a competition with an arrow rest that worn in the first place. These rests are not necessarily a cheap option as those that rely on them change them especially before a big event, when you have been using them for a while you know when they need changing. My twp pence worth So far bearing in mind that it will need changing, I have found the Hoyt Pro rest and Beiter button to be the most consistent combination I have used in the last 3 years, TT has it spot on re Spiga evo2 if a flipper rest is your preferred choice.

Re OP question you need to know if the basics of your bow are set up correctly, then do a bareshaft test (a balanced bareshaft) this will tell you where you go next.
 

Rik

Supporter
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from the photo (it's a little hard to tell) it looks like the fletchings may be set up in an old style flat-to-the-riser fitting rather than the more modern y-shape recommended...
I also find that, sometimes, raising the nocking point a little helps.
 

ThomVis

Active member
Bow = 38/39#.
Guesstimate? We need weight measured at your drawlength, called the On The Fingers (OTF) weight.
But the best test is to shoot an unfletched arrow next to some fletched ones at 18-30 meters. If the shafts don't impact on anything on the bow those results tell you something.
 

Dr. B

New member
Guesstimate? We need weight measured at your drawlength, called the On The Fingers (OTF) weight.
But the best test is to shoot an unfletched arrow next to some fletched ones at 18-30 meters. If the shafts don't impact on anything on the bow those results tell you something.
No, measured. I just can't remember the exact number. It was 38.?
I will shoot some bareshafts tonight and report back.
 

Dr. B

New member
OK I shot at 20 yards last night.
First, I made sure the limbs were at minimum setting - 34# limbs but measured at 38 to 39#.
Secondly I put the brace height to mid-ish position - around 23.5cm (70" bow).
The I set the button to mid stiffness and aligned the sight pin with the string so that it was a little to the left of the string in the string picture.
The first thing to note was that there was an audible click on release of pretty much every arrow, and that the fletched arrows were landing around 30cm to the right of the aiming point. Also, the grouping was very poor - maybe 30cm diameter.
On shooting bareshafts, well, most of them missed the boss to the right. One or two landed around 30cm to the left of the fletched group!
My thinking was that bareshafts which did not hit the riser went to the right (not stiff enough) and that ones that did hit were deflected to the left. But a fellow archer thought it might be the other way round.
In any case, I then replaced the limbs with 32# limbs which I had.
The difference was immediate - almost silent release, just a sweet twang, fletched arrows grouping 5 to 10cm diameter, and bareshafts landing in with the fletched group. This was only 20 yards, but still.
So this seems to indicate the arrows are not stiff enough. But this is puzzling since according to the Easton chart they're not far out, and everyone says a spine point out shouldn't make such a difference.
Oh well, I'm going to stick with shooting the lighter limbs for a few weeks, to make sure, then get some stiffer arrows when I move up to my stronger limbs again.
 

ThomVis

Active member
this is puzzling since according to the Easton chart they're not far out, and everyone says a spine point out shouldn't make such a difference.
The charts are a ballpark figure, shooting bareshaft tells you where you need to go. In the end the dynamic arrow spine needs to match the bow/archer combination, and there are a lot of variables in that equation.
 

Timid Toad

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In order to tune you need arrows that do not contact the bow in flight, thereby losing energy. If you are right handed, arrows striking the riser will go everywhere and anywhere. Those (bareshafts) that do not strike the riser will most probably go to the right of the fletched group.
Are your arrows on the long side? Shortening them 1/2" might make a difference.
 

Dr. B

New member
Are your arrows on the long side? Shortening them 1/2" might make a difference.
They are 31.5" with 1" between the rest and clicker, so not much scope to shorten them.
I'm not sure what the point weights are, but I can find out (shop chose them), or how much stiffening of the arrows I could get by changing them.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
While you've got contact, you can't really tell about the match of the shafts. It may be suggestive of a mismatch, but bare shaft can't actually tell you anything unless you fix the contact first. Rear contact is (if I recall correctly) suggestive of a weak shaft - the theoretical mechanism is that the shaft is not reacting quickly enough and the rear end striking the riser instead of bending around it. But that assumes there's no other cause (like a kick from the nock release, because the brace height is wrong, or the rear end being given inward travel by some other miss-setting). Clearance issues are a royal pain.
 

Dr. B

New member
True Rik. I was aware of that. But having lowered the poundage, the clearance issues have gone (hopefully for good).
 
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