Beginners; what are they like!?

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Well, the ones I have seen over the years have been like this:
Some stand and draw as if they have been shooting for years. Sometimes referred to as, "naturals". ( let's not go into that now,though)
Some take a few dozen shots before they start to draw with a bit more confidence, and start to look quite good through the draw stage.
Then there are the ones that present various issues that we feel the urge to correct.
The ones that move their heads towards the string, like a toddler coming up to kiss granny. And those in the opposing team who lean back from the string like it is so hot their nose will ignite on contact with it.
There is a high bow shoulder group; and a low draw elbow group, usually with a tilted head as if trying to look along the arrow, in a rifle shooting posture.
There are some who stand with a very open stance. Their feet may be square but they twist the upper body as if to face the target with the shoulders way out of line. They really struggle to draw comfortably.
Usually, those issues are quickly put right with a mention of what they are doing, or a little demonstration.( or a video playback)
Another issue that some have, I find less easy to overcome.
It is the one where the string is drawn very slowly and carefully and it appears they have been told to keep the back of the arrow directly behind the front of the arrow and pointing at the gold all through the draw. The draw is hesitant and shaking more often than not, and the face tells of a struggle within. The arrow is not pointing at the gold all the time and they are "getting it wrong" in their minds, it would seem. If they abort out of a sense of failure, they will go through that "Pointing at the gold" thing, all over again next time.
Usually, I will demonstrate their draw and demonstrate the one I would like them to copy. The words, "just get on with it, don't worry about where the arrow is pointing,so long as it is facing that end of the field, just move your elbow till the string ends up at your face.
To my way of thinking, the way the release happens is a major part of the enjoyment to be had from shooting arrows. A nice ,confident draw is a good lead up the a finish that is enjoyable as opposed to inhibited.
I welcome any comments that could help me with the beginners who have this tendency to be over careful during the draw stage.
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I found that giving a beginner with a hesitant draw the lightest bow we have in the club ( jelly bows are very good for this) standing them in front of a blank boss at 5 yds and getting them to draw with their eyes shut works wonders..... Then making them focus on the draw feeling not the target when they go back to their normal bow.

Comes back to an archer needs to be focussed on themselves, not the target or aiming, which is the hardest bit to get right in archery in my opinion...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks both,
I just realised after reading Fbirder's reply, there is a misleading mistake in my post. I mentioned the "arrows not pointing at the GOLD" It would be more accurate to say "imaginary gold" because I tend not to put faces on the boss for beginners.They aim at the centre winding,hehhee. We have lightweight bows 16lb and do close stuff but some will still draw as if the draw hand is on a tightrope walk.
I do blind shooting when coaching newer archers but not beginners. I think that would be a good idea to try. What about the beginner who might be nervous of shooting with eyes closed? ( I know some new archers find that very stressful as they can't relax due to imagining the worst, I suppose.)
Comes back to an archer needs to be focussed on themselves, not the target or aiming, which is the hardest bit to get right in archery in my opinion...
I think that is very true, even many experienced archers fall foul of that one. I wonder about beginners ,though. They often focus too much on the target or aiming, but I feel there is a bit more going on rather than that alone. Something along the lines of "they don't know exactly what they ARE doing because of the novelty of the situation, and a bit of nerves. (It is interesting how often they say "sorry" when something didn't go well; as if they are going to be blamed.) Perhaps that's down to the cane I carry with me)
Would a stretchy band to draw be a good idea; or is that one step too far from actual shooting? OR just drawing the bow easily with no arrow and a talk on dry firing first.( I'm thinking only for the ones who are struggling with a hesitant draw, not necessarily every beginner)
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Probably guilty of all these things but I occasionally hit the right bit of the target. :poulies:
 

Zombie_Feynman

New member
What anchor point are they using? Is it one that puts the arrow close to the eye? I see many beginners that aim for too long (which is related), but not many that draw really slowly. If they are drawing three under and anchoring on their cheek maybe you could try mediterranean under the chin, as it makes it harder to aim with the arrow.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I've worked on eliminating all my guilty faults; with a bit of success. I only hit the right bit occasionally, too.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks for that Z_F,
I demonstrate Mediterranean. Quite a few, recently, have ended up half way up the side of the face. In days past some would end up with the top finger in front of their jaw, not below. I am not too bothered at the start, where the hand lands, as I think reaching the face for some is challenge enough.
It seems more natural to do three fingers under and draw to a higher place on the face, but I would rather they "succeeded" with the first few shots. Succeeded, in the sense that they drew back to the face "Somewhere." My feeling is that a confident draw is better than a hesitant one, and if they can get something right ,SOON, that makes them relax sooner and progress is easier afterwards.
mediterranean under the chin, as it makes it harder to aim with the arrow.
I hope you are not upset by my next comment, I am not trying to be flippant, I just saw the funny side of this.
Making it harder to aim with the arrow might cause them to try even harder and to fail more easily.
I like beginners, they seem to react to their mistakes in a way that is a little child like. That is refreshing, as we often try to hide our mistakes by pretending there was a good reason. Smiles are worth a lot on these occasions. We smile together.
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
We do tend to use clini bands on our beginners, or should I say with our beginners... Especially when trying to teach elbow position etc etc....
I think a lot of the problem as well is trying too hard, focussing on putting the arrow in the gold and not thinking about the actual process of shooting, all of which comes later.... The light bows don't help either as most beginners physically can aim a 14 or 16lb bow for a good amount of time...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks for that, Yes, I see how light bows allow extra time on aim. They are a double edged sword in that they allow easier alignment and time to manipulate a better anchor.
Over aiming is what seems to cause the hesitant draw that I mentioned.
I was lucky recently to have the field to myself for a beginners course in a one to one situation. We did the normal beginners type session one, but in session two we shot arrows up the field pointing the arrow at fence level and reaching around 70yds with lots of safe overshoot. The posture relaxed and the draw smoothed out and speeded up a little. The aiming style of draw diminished to a nice uninhibited one. His face relaxed and all the serious looks faded away.
We went back to 20y or so and although we had not used a sight all through session one and two the aiming started up all over again. When I pointed that out, he did manage to relax and get back to the way he was when shooting up the field. He is a quick learner. I am not sure that a dozen or so beginners could be managed in that way.
 

Zombie_Feynman

New member
Thanks for that Z_F,
I demonstrate Mediterranean. Quite a few, recently, have ended up half way up the side of the face. In days past some would end up with the top finger in front of their jaw, not below. I am not too bothered at the start, where the hand lands, as I think reaching the face for some is challenge enough.
It seems more natural to do three fingers under and draw to a higher place on the face, but I would rather they "succeeded" with the first few shots. Succeeded, in the sense that they drew back to the face "Somewhere." My feeling is that a confident draw is better than a hesitant one, and if they can get something right ,SOON, that makes them relax sooner and progress is easier afterwards.
That's a very good approach. I agree that anchor is not really that important in the beginning, and is something that is easier to achieve when they have a confident draw.

I hope you are not upset by my next comment, I am not trying to be flippant, I just saw the funny side of this.
Making it harder to aim with the arrow might cause them to try even harder and to fail more easily.
I like beginners, they seem to react to their mistakes in a way that is a little child like. That is refreshing, as we often try to hide our mistakes by pretending there was a good reason. Smiles are worth a lot on these occasions. We smile together.
Not at all, you are very likely right. When teaching beginners we are often fumbling in the dark as much as they are :) Keeping it fun is important, as you say.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks for that. One thing I notice about a higher draw weight bow is the way the release seems to happen with less hesitation. It's as if the weight encourages them to get on with it at the finishing stage. Really low weight can bring on the situation where they hold at full draw waiting for the sight to settle; or when they have no sight, they wait for the arrow point to settle.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
I found that giving a beginner with a hesitant draw the lightest bow we have in the club ( jelly bows are very good for this) standing them in front of a blank boss at 5 yds and getting them to draw with their eyes shut works wonders..... Then making them focus on the draw feeling not the target when they go back to their normal bow.

Comes back to an archer needs to be focussed on themselves, not the target or aiming, which is the hardest bit to get right in archery in my opinion...
When some thing is going wrong get the archer to focus on and correct it. Focusing on them selves? no I disagree.
Focus is fluid It needs to be able to move from point to point. Do we focus on our foot position all the time? Of course not, do we focus on our bow hand position all the time? No we set the correct hand position and fix it in place by applying a little draw pressure, after we have correctly placed our fingers on the string.
The idea that there is a separate bow and archer is wrong, bow and archer should be regarded as one system as neither can function without the other and as countless tuning posts have show us, must be in tune one with the other.
For me as a command compound archer the target is also part of the system. Until I get the pin floating or steady on the gold I cannot release the arrow, because the execution would be as faulty as if I had put my bow hand in the wrong place. Focus needs to be applied in three different ways. Those we can set and forget ( foot position and the like) those we can set and maintain with a little effort (anchor, maintaining correct draw length) and those that require a lot of attention ( execution and aim )
 

mbaker74

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Yep exactly Geoff, when talking about focus I meant for the archer to focus on what he is doing with his feet, bow hand, shoulders, draw etc etc as required, rather than what mst beginners do which is focus through the sight or end of the arrow on the gold..... So to focus on themselves and what they are doing, rather than the target.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
When I am writing with a pen, or drawing with a pencil, I feel that I am watching what is happening on the paper; what is appearing as I move my hand around. When carving a piece of wood, I see the shavings coming off where I want them to. Hammering in a nail, I see the nail going in deeper and deeper.
What I am actually doing seems to be happening because I want that to happen, and nothing more.
As a kid, I shot arrows up the field and I watched them fly!! There was little thought given to what I was doing to bring that about.
I suppose that the very first attempts at writing etc, kept me busy with making the tools move as they should, so focus then would have been on me in that sense.
Perhaps these things are connected to the way we learn to shoot as adults. We rapidly get some arrows to fly, then we turn our attention to where the arrows are going, sort of one step ahead of the actual flight of said arrows.
 
Top