Center Shot For a Right Handed Archer

Admittedly I haven't done a vast amount of tuning having only been shooting for about 18 months or so and so I'm just starting to dabble.

But I've just read something that I've never heard of before and contrary to all other info I've read.

I've always been told/read that basic center shot alignment is to set the plunger so that the tip of the arrow is just to the left of the string which makes sense in regards to the Archers Paradox (if I've understood that correctly at least).

However I've just bought the Apptitune app APPtitune | Jake Kaminski which says something different. It says that you should do this for barreled shafts like X10's. However if you are using parallel shafts like ACC or X7 Eclipse (I'm shooting ACC's) the arrow will be right down the center of the string.

Obviously someone like Jake Kaminski is going to know far, far, far more than me on anything archery related but does anyone else do this? Perhaps this is common knowledge it's just that I've never read this anywhere else before.
 

RichParker

New member
He does say it is a rough centreshot, the aim is that you then spend time doing the further checks in the app to determine 'proper' centreshot.
But if you are doing a rough tune and then intend to shoot and not doing walk back tests etc. then I think just to the left is a good starting point.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

blakey

Active member
Obviously someone like Jake Kaminski is going to know far, far, far more than me on anything archery related but does anyone else do this? Perhaps this is common knowledge it's just that I've never read this anywhere else before.
I see he shoots a recurve. So while I understand such a setting for compounds, this is against everything I have been shown by various experts, coaches, National Champs, etc. So I have no idea. I hazard that one of the things that is dangerous about listening to advice from really good shots is that they could be so good that they are doing things that us average mortals cannot. Particularly with regard to the release. Perfect form could be freakish? I would respectfully suggest that you ignore this and listen to your club coach. Who could be more grounded in mediocrity, like myself. Not to knock brilliance, but can it be learned? Cheers
 

carl7

New member
I first make absolutely sure the limbs are aligned. Then I set the arrow about 1/4 it's width to the left of string and adjust the aperture to exactly above the offset arrow. Medium plunger spring. Then, shoot, shoot, shoot for the best group, once found by adjusting plunger only, adjust aperture to center that group.

That arrow offset depends on your release technique too.
 

darthTer

Active member
Supporter
Ironman
American Shoot
There are no absolutes in this game!!!

I would start with the point just to the left of the string, then start shooting & adjusting to achieve the best results.

I have found when shooting my Borders Hex-series limbs, that the arrow tip tends to sit more in line with the string - I believe this is to do with the torsional stiffness of the limbs. Other limbs will give different positions....you need to find what works best for you!!!!
 

hooktonboy

The American
Ironman
American Shoot
Agree that just left should be treated as a starting point. My experience is that when using ally's, "just left" continues to be pretty much optimal for my shooting, but for a/cs, I pretty much always end up virtually right down the centre...
 

Mark31121

Member
Ironman
I've always been told/read that basic center shot alignment is to set the plunger so that the tip of the arrow is just to the left of the string which makes sense in regards to the Archers Paradox (if I've understood that correctly at least).

However I've just bought the Apptitune app APPtitune | Jake Kaminski which says something different. It says that you should do this for barreled shafts like X10's. However if you are using parallel shafts like ACC or X7 Eclipse (I'm shooting ACC's) the arrow will be right down the center of the string
I thought it was the other way round - parallel to the left and barelled shafts more to the centre (assuming that the middle of the barrell is at the pressure button upon release I would think).
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Obviously someone like Jake Kaminski is going to know far, far, far more than me on anything archery related but does anyone else do this? Perhaps this is common knowledge it's just that I've never read this anywhere else before.
The question you have to ask yourself is "Does Jake Kaminski know more than Easton" ( the people who make the arrows)? Down load, read and understand the 'Easton Tuning and Maintainance Guide' then carry out the Bare shaft tune.
 

Boogy1973

New member
I watched a video in which he said very much the same thing.when I first got my bow and started shooting I set my bow up like that with centershot down the middle because I didn't know any better and shot very well for my level. A coach later told me that was wrong and pushed it out to 'normal'.i never shot worse I'm now moving it back and will follow up with walk back tuning.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Why do we off set from centre?
I think a lot of this goes back to the days when bows were like longbows and had no cut away. The archer's paradox is the fact that although the arrow points off to one side, they can travel straight ahead as if they went through the riser/handle to get there. With cut away risers, I guess the thinking was that the arrow could come closer to centre; but perhaps they should stay clear of dead centre because they knew, from experience, off centre worked.
Then there was the thinking that the string gets pushed off centre at the point of release; so off set the front of the arrow to match. I believe there was some thoughts that the shaft might bend away from the button instead of towards the button, if the front of the arrow was on centre.
If there was such a position as " correct amount of off set" I think that would be well known by now.
Another issue is the spring in the button, If that is compressed at the start of the power stroke as the arrow presses against the tip, then off setting from centre will bring the arrow more or less onto centre for most of its travel.
As for barrel shafts and parallel ones; I see the bending of the shaft as being a large amount compared to anything the barrelling produces.
I read a few years ago( 4 or 5) that quite a few archers were setting their arrows much closer to centre. Some even said their arrows were inside centre and still shot well.
If someone moves their centre shot from off set to centre, they will find, I expect, that their arrows travel a bit to the right and might adjust their sight windage to compensate. Or stiffen the button. Or even need to shoot different spine arrows.
I am not saying that off setting makes no difference. I am saying that without any off set,I think arrows can still be shot just as well by making other adjustments to compensate. I THINK, but don't know for sure.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Why do we off set from centre?
I think a lot of this goes back to the days when bows were like longbows and had no cut away. The archer's paradox is the fact that although the arrow points off to one side, they can travel straight ahead as if they went through the riser/handle to get there. With cut away risers, I guess the thinking was that the arrow could come closer to centre; but perhaps they should stay clear of dead centre because they knew, from experience, off centre worked.
Then there was the thinking that the string gets pushed off centre at the point of release; so off set the front of the arrow to match. I believe there was some thoughts that the shaft might bend away from the button instead of towards the button, if the front of the arrow was on centre.
If there was such a position as " correct amount of off set" I think that would be well known by now.
Another issue is the spring in the button, If that is compressed at the start of the power stroke as the arrow presses against the tip, then off setting from centre will bring the arrow more or less onto centre for most of its travel.
As for barrel shafts and parallel ones; I see the bending of the shaft as being a large amount compared to anything the barrelling produces.
I read a few years ago( 4 or 5) that quite a few archers were setting their arrows much closer to centre. Some even said their arrows were inside centre and still shot well.
If someone moves their centre shot from off set to centre, they will find, I expect, that their arrows travel a bit to the right and might adjust their sight windage to compensate. Or stiffen the button. Or even need to shoot different spine arrows.
I am not saying that off setting makes no difference. I am saying that without any off set,I think arrows can still be shot just as well by making other adjustments to compensate. I THINK, but don't know for sure.
 

Boogy1973

New member
I agree with you,there isn't such a thing as the perfect offset.i watched jake set up a bow on you tube and found it fascinating to watch someone like him do it. He used the tiller bolts/limb weight to tune the arrow.but going back to when I got my first proper bow I couldn't understand why with cutaway risers and plunger buttons you needed to offset the arrow.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Limb bolt adjustment for arrow tuning/matching is the way to go. Arrow matching is very much dependent on launch timing compared to the speed at which the arrow flexes and waves about during the power stroke. At the point where the arrow separates from the string, the shaft may have gone past its best position, so we need a faster bow to catch it just right. If the arrow hasn't reached its best position at separation, it needs a little more time, so a slower launch is needed. When that is sorted, sometimes we need to alter things just a little at the button or brace height to get the arrow well launched and along a line that requires no windage adjustments for different ranges. Off setting, more or less, can help with getting that alignment between the eye line to the target and the line the arrow takes.
I can only guess that most archers end up with some offset because getting off set at zero might take a lot more fiddling around with arrow spines.
Perhaps having the offset out side the line is more common because the spine charts lead us into shafts that are better suited to that set up. I don't know that the charts are deliberately set up for that. It could just be the way things turn out and outside off set isn't seen as a problem; so no need to change anything.
This is just me thinking aloud.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Centre shot is one of those things which causes confusion, because it's actually a range of values rather than a point.
The guides say "set it like this" knowing that it doesn't matter too much if you're a little out, as that normally just means your tiller/button will end up set slightly differently.
They say to set it and then do everything else, because there isn't a sinple test for determining if one setting is better than the others.
But if things in the setup are obviously wrong, then one of the "fix" concepts is "change the centre shot and try again" because sometimes with an edgy setup you can have it set in a way which will not work well (often due to clearance).

So if someone says "I set it in line" - fine, if that works for them. It may also work with a conventional out of line setup, or not, if there are other factors to consider.

Note: I've seen comments about "design x" being more tolerant or less tolerant of particular centre shot setups. I'd probably reserve judgement on that and try a range of things, myself.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi ,Rik, I agree with all of that.
What intrigues me is that the off set is " outside centre" almost as a Rule.
Just by thinking about this, I can give myself several reasons why that should be. (I have written those in a previous post.)
However, reasons that to me seem logical can so easily prove to be incorrect.
What also strike me, is the idea that being on centre would appear to be better than being well off centre. Well off centre doesn't seem to have any merit at all;rather it is seen as indicating something else isn't right. Same as the sight... if that is 1/4" away from where we expect it to be( left to right) we would want to find out why. Beginners often have their bows set up with arrow or sight well off centre, and often that is seen as a reason for further investigation.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Hmmm. The thing about on-centre or inline... If we're relying on the shaft bending to provide clearance, will it bend as much for an inline setup? Is there a possibility that inline will produce more clearance issues (especially with - for example - a fixed rest like the Beiter)?
Or will an inline setup reduce clearance issues in a case where the shaft match is out, so less bending may actually be an advantage...?

I normally end up with more questions than answers, when I try to theorise...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Rik, I don't know the answer to any of those questions, but they are interesting ones.
According to Joe, the shaft will bend anyway. If the release is the reason the shaft bends one way rather than the other, is the slight extra off set going to change the position of the whole arrow in relation to, let's say, the riser. I feel that the string holds the back of the arrow in more or less the same place for most centre shot positions; and contact is often caused by that end of the shaft.
For clearance to be bad, usually the flexing is the wrong way round , I believe; a real mismatch of spine.
 
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