Draw length;has your changed?

geoffretired

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Supporter
When archers finish their beginners' course, and join a club, they are usually advised what to buy and what to avoid. Arrows that are too long is usually a good idea; expecting their draw length to increase as they settle/ relax into a better posture.
Sometimes, though, draw length changes are made after some years of shooting.I am not thinking of juniors who have grown in the few years since buying their first bow, but seniors who aren't old enough to be shrinking just yet!!
We read of examples on this forum, sometimes after a visit to a well known coach, who advised a draw length change.
I suppose the change isn't so much draw length as draw posture; bone alignment at full draw.
I wonder what the reasons are behind the need to change? Was it ,for example, that the archer was self taught and just, "knew no better"? Perhaps they were advised by someone who had the idea that "centre of nose, centre of chin" was all that matters.
What are your experiences with draw length? Changes or decision making for what's better for you or your students.
Cheers.
 

darthTer

Active member
Supporter
Ironman
American Shoot
I would guess that most DL changes come about form either an alignment change, or reference change.

I attended a session with Coach Kim a while back....he recommended that I change my reference to a more "side of mouth" anchor - this added another 1" to my draw. However, I reverted back to my original position due to not being able to maintain consistency.

Draw elbow alignment is also a big "favourite" for changing DL, as is head position. I would think that a change of reference position would be the most common reason though!!!
 

johnnybeta

Member
Ironman
I changed my draw length after about two years after finishing my beginners course, and like DarthTer moved to a side of mouth anchor which added a good 1-2cm to my draw length.

I made the change last summer because my coach pointed out my relatively poor draw elbow alignment. I had until that point been drawing to the centre of my chin/nose, as taught on my beginners course, but this left my draw arm sticking out a long way and at a very low angle (barely above my shoulder), the only way I could seem to get over this was to draw to a side of mouth anchor. Unlike DT, I've been able to stick with the change, and I think I'm now able to anchor more consistently, get more work out of my shoulder/back, and can (when I do it right) get a much cleaner release.

The timing of making the change - i.e two years after finishing beginners, rather than any sooner - happened as I started to take my archery more seriously (young children growing up, so slightly more spare time to concentrate on it) and was looking to actually start improving rather than just shooting casually as and when time allowed.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks DarthTer and Johnnybeta. It seems that reference position has been part of the reason in both of your changes. Both moving out from centre ish.
Is this an indication that centre of nose and chin was set for simplicity? Have we moved away from that as the " best" place?
Could it be that draw length based on alignment is more helpful than based on one place fits all on the centre line of the nose chin?
 

mf78

Member
Tricky one. Increasing draw length to achieve better aligment isnt necessarily the best way of going about it. If the draw hand then comes away from the jawline or neck, or the string starts to go down the side of the jaw as a result then it can be very bad (talking from experience). Yet from what i have heard it seems to be quite commonly recommended. Over about 3 years my drawlength has increased a bit and my alignment much improved, but my anchor point is more or less the same. Its come from learning to draw properly and more flexibility. The latter wasnt something i have worked on really, its just improved with shooting.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Cheers Mf78, I see what you mean about draw length and alignment.It isn't always a simple change.
I am imagining, the view from above, of an archer's draw. If it was possible, easily, to draw with the forearm aligned with the arrow at all stages, then eventually the string would reach a position where the string blur could be seen and the draw hand could rest below and touching the jaw.The string would be touching the nose, probably, and the front of the chin perhaps.There will probably still be room for further draw length, keeping the forearm aligned with the arrow, but looking from above that seems to require the draw hand to move in closer to the centre of the face. The string would then have trouble as it presses harder against the side of the chin.Perhaps the head would turn away further than is comfortable to accommodate that.
 

mf78

Member
Well if you have achieved keeping the forearm inline with the arrow all the way back to your chin, then voila! You have your draw length and perfect aligment :) I think i know what you mean though, if you carried on that direction. My draw wants to take the string through my head rather than down the side of it.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I feel that the idea of the string wanting to go through the head is not such a bad one.I believe that there is an element of that at full draw. It is ,in a way, one means of keeping the hand from flying away on release. It also helps to keep the head from wanting to lean over the arrow, as many beginners do in their early sessions. Even now, I get that sensation when I am settling in to my references.
Getting draw length right, or right ish, is not always straight forward. I find it easy with some archers as they seem to "fit the mould" and they are well aligned etc because of their bone structure, or body awareness.Those individuals who do not fit that mould, need more attention and priorities need taking into account.
It would make an interesting poll to see how many archers have changed draw length after several years of shooting.It seems some have had it wrong for some time, when I think back to the many posts I have read on other threads. (The threads may not have been about draw length changes, but a change was mentioned in it.)
In can't explain why, but recently I seem to have come into contact with more beginners than usual, who have long upper arm bones compared to the forearm ones.This makes the front of the face references almost impossible if alignment is to be good.
 

mf78

Member
Have you read Rick McKinneys book? He mentioned doing a study into forearm lengths and claimed he found no relation at all between that and the ability to get inline. I dont know if his conclusions were correct or not. He went on to describe a method to get better line with a series of photographs, but no matter how many I read that page it still makes no sense to me. Now my alignment was never textbook but it is damn close now and i still anchor front of face. Not dead centre, but certainly not down the side. So I think alignment is something to be worked on and improves as technique improves. So get alignment close, then work on other things and see what happens. I do think some people find it much easier to get inline than others but i also think it isnt the be-all and end-all especially early on.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
HI, no I haven't read the book, but I can imagine that alignment is possible for all. I have to wonder,though, where the string is in relation to the face in that position.

As for the idea that some things are not so vital early on;I would say that helping the beginner to realise that "right v wrong" is not as clear cut as some would say ,is a worthwhile inclusion in a beginners' course.
Cheers for your posts.
 

backinblack

Active member
Hi Geoff,

I am 4.5 years into my shooting career and have had two significant draw length changes - firstly I went from what was probably too much of a side anchor to more of a front of face anchor and lost some length from when I first started shooting and this was about a year and a half ago.

My draw length is now increasing again as my coach has me pushing my bow shoulder further forward and my draw length has grown by a smidge over half an inch in the last fortnight and I suspect there might be a bit further I can go both forwards and by getting my back working a little better.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Backinblack, thanks for that. Can I clarify that as a beginner you were advised to shoot side of face, or was that later?
I can see that having the bow hand further from the face will increase draw length. I guess that would indicate the the front shoulder was high or the elbow bent or open shoulders etc. As far as I can see, front arm is a different set of circumstances, and requires a different set of rules/guidelines. I find the draw arm, far more difficult to sort out for beginners, or more experienced archers, who have been sent down a less than flexible path to sorting their form.
 

backinblack

Active member
Backinblack, thanks for that. Can I clarify that as a beginner you were advised to shoot side of face, or was that later?
I can see that having the bow hand further from the face will increase draw length. I guess that would indicate the the front shoulder was high or the elbow bent or open shoulders etc. As far as I can see, front arm is a different set of circumstances, and requires a different set of rules/guidelines. I find the draw arm, far more difficult to sort out for beginners, or more experienced archers, who have been sent down a less than flexible path to sorting their form.
Hi Geoff,

On our beginners' course we were all advised to shoot front of face and I moved to a side anchor later in order to work my back better. This did, however, ruin my string picture with the string appearing somewhere outside the right hand side of the riser and so I moved back to a more front of face anchor which has helped. However, this is not the tip of nose, centre of chin anchor we were all taught as beginners.

With regard to the newly extended draw length, I don't shoot with a bent elbow and I wasn't particularly aware of a high shoulder at the start of my draw but I have had trouble getting the shoulder set with the tendency for it to rise up when I am coming through the clicker. Keeping reaching forward towards the target has helped with that tremendously and I think this has helped get me into a better alignment. Also, having something that is rather more fixed to pull against has meant that the back end is working better also.

It has taken me an age to work out exactly what is needed with the front shoulder - my coach has been trying to get me to do this for over a year and I have been trying to do it but dense old me couldn't understand what it needed to look and feel like and thrashing around trying to get this sorted caused the greater part of my problems with the bow torquing all the time. Seems to be moving in the right direction now though...cross my fingers and hope not to cock up again.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks, Backinblack.
It seems draw length is not so easily found for each archer. Perhaps it is left to sort itself after a beginners course, on the thinking that the archer will relax, increase draw, get in line better and settle for that. The problem with that ,as I see it, is that the beginner may not have been helped in that time( with that element) and could still be working on a reference position that is adding to the difficulty.
Glad to hear you are getting yours sorted.
 

Rip T

New member
my draw length changed with the front shoulder as well. After a couple of years I had my shoulder up near my ear and was advised to push it down and under - result was 1" on the draw.

better now but took weeks and weeks to sort out good form again.

Rip
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi RipT, thanks for that. Was the high shoulder was always like that ,till someone pointed it out, or had it been low at the start then you drifted into the high shoulder habit without being aware?
 

Rip T

New member
It was fine but then started to creep up over time as I tried to hold weight and concentrated on other things (was shooting over 560 for a Portsmouth at the time).

I was doing an intermediate course and the man said he just could not leave it so got me to change - at the end of the course which 4 people were doing we were all so bad we got another lesson and then it took a good couple of months to get comfortable.

Now happy with my form and shooting 290 for Worcester and 580+ for Portsmouth - my draw is a lot more consistent and I can repeat the shot all day. The other thing is that my alignment is much better and I should not have any problems with long term shoulder issues.

It was worth the abuse from my club mates.

Rip
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi RipT, Thanks for that. I guess it was the high shoulder that the guy "Couldn't leave". That would move the bow further forward when you lowered it, increasing draw length,yes? Did your draw hand change its reference position ,too?
 

Tropicalshot

New member
When i started shooting i was taught side of chin anchor and std T shape alignment,
I bought my own kit withing the first 12 months and had the arrows cut to my draw length (28 1/2")
I maintained this for some time and as i was progressing in my archery and i became stronger/stable and more aligned, i found my draw had increased,
Now with the standard T alignment with elbows and shoulders down my draw measured at 30"
his was about 5 years ago and i have maintained the 30" draw and have improved my form consistency.
I still use a side of chin anchor as my ugly facial structure does not allow my draw shoulder to rotate correctly when using front of chin, ( arms are probably dissapropriate proportions to each other )
Anyway i feel comfortable and am told i look very much aligned by coach.
P.S. i have no string clearence issues
 
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