Grips/Coaching

Hi Folks,

I've been going about a year (recurve)- so still pretty fresh. I got my first real bit of coaching at my club at the weekend and was really thankful for some very good advice - first up, i am going to try to use my shoulder more than the bicep - i know what i am doing there - so all good.

However, the second bit of advice was to change how i grip the bow. To turn my hand to 45 degrees and hold it against a different part of my hand. My fingers were also getting in the way a little, so we tried to move my hand down the grip a bit, however, my hand slid back up to the same position, as soon as i put any sort of tension on the string. It was suggested i may want to sand down my riser handle which I'm not overly keen to do this and there was also the option of using racket tape on the handle.....

So my question has a few aspects... firstly, do you have any good guides/videos you would recommend on youtube to do this, would you just cover the handle with tape or would you try to build it up, somehow, to make it comfier/fit the hand better and what materials do you all use?

Got my first competition coming up soon and as much as i won't get anywhere near the top, i don't want to be lagging behind the rest of the field either

cheers in advance
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Maybe I'm not picturing it right, but why would you want your hand down the grip? That's not where it is supposed to be...
Knuckles at 45 degrees, yes. Some people find it helps to tuck the last 3 fingers (loosely) into the palm, so they are not round the handle.

Alistair Whittingham put hand position as his first (and fourth) episodes...
Episode 1 - Hand Position - Performance Archery
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Hi - when I was given similar advise a few years ago I tried grip tape on its own which didn't work for me, then I obtained a spare handle and began modifying it with Sugru (available widely). I was also lucky enough to have a friend 3D print a few handle blanks for me in various styles which I could attack with a sander.

I eventually got to a unique handle that fitted me and set my hand correctly - trouble was this coincided with my form crashing :(

Now when I (rarely) shoot my recurve it has my original unmodified grip on it since I also utilise the riser for barebow but my hand has become accustomed to correct placement without the need for added bits.




Karl
 

tan.k.sun.7

New member
Hi Folks,

I've been going about a year (recurve)- so still pretty fresh. I got my first real bit of coaching at my club at the weekend and was really thankful for some very good advice - first up, i am going to try to use my shoulder more than the bicep - i know what i am doing there - so all good.

However, the second bit of advice was to change how i grip the bow. To turn my hand to 45 degrees and hold it against a different part of my hand. My fingers were also getting in the way a little, so we tried to move my hand down the grip a bit, however, my hand slid back up to the same position, as soon as i put any sort of tension on the string. It was suggested i may want to sand down my riser handle which I'm not overly keen to do this and there was also the option of using racket tape on the handle.....

So my question has a few aspects... firstly, do you have any good guides/videos you would recommend on youtube to do this, would you just cover the handle with tape or would you try to build it up, somehow, to make it comfier/fit the hand better and what materials do you all use?

Got my first competition coming up soon and as much as i won't get anywhere near the top, i don't want to be lagging behind the rest of the field either

cheers in advance
A quick simple fix I found to prevent my hand from slipping on the grip, especially shooting in the rain was to cut a small piece of anti slip carborundum tape and stick it onto the grip. It only needs to be big enough to be under your pressure point ie between you thumb and lifeline. Note that the tape should not go up into where the V of your hand goes into the pivot point. Otherwise the web between your thumb and forefinger will be painfully abraded.


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chrisnoble

New member
A plus 1 for grip tape. My hand was moving when shooting in the hot summer weather and so I use some of the type for scooters/skateboards. A piece around 2 inch square on the thumb pad area works a treat.


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ben tarrow

Well-known member
I know people get fed up of me saying this, but if your hand slips on the grip, your hand position is wrong. Using tape to give you better adhesion to the grip to prevent slipping means you MUST be torquing the grip
 

chrisnoble

New member
That's not the only conclusion it could also means the grip doesn't fit your hand properly otherwise why would there be an industry in providing putty, aftermarket grips etc? Grip tape, racket tape etc all work just fine too if you experiment until you find what's right for you.


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geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If your hand is in a good position for shooting, and if the grip supports the hand when it is in that good position, it should not want to move. BUT under some circumstances the hand may feel insecure on the grip. I don't think we need a sticky type of finish that can hold the hand in a bad position; but we could make good use of a surface that discourages slipping. Not slipping is not the same as sticking.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
In a timely post, Border just stuck an old photo up on FB, as an illustration of grip...
21752973_3152538081438258_8388272716199664901_o.jpg
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think one of the problems with "grip" is the way it is sometimes described in angles like 45 deg, when it would be better, I feel, to give the position the bones get into when the hand is well placed. Also, comfort can be seen as important and sometimes we look for comfort but not necessarily when the hand is well positioned for shooting.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think the picture of the hand is fine, as far as it goes, but without the text to support what is trying to be achieved it is possible to copy without understanding.
For example, if I look at my hand on the bow from in front, as in the picture, the knuckles make an angle of X deg but if I view from my side I see the knuckles that are at the end of my palm, not the same joints/knuckles seen in the photo. My view of my knuckles from this side is not X deg.
Most archers will get a view of their hand from their point of view specially when working on hand position.
 

ThomVis

Active member
I think the picture of the hand is fine, as far as it goes, but without the text to support what is trying to be achieved it is possible to copy without understanding.
As with so many things. And even with text it's up for interpretation. Without trying or a coach in-the-know it's all academic.

For example, if I look at my hand on the bow from in front, as in the picture, the knuckles make an angle of X deg but if I view from my side I see the knuckles that are at the end of my palm, not the same joints/knuckles seen in the photo. My view of my knuckles from this side is not X deg.
Most archers will get a view of their hand from their point of view specially when working on hand position.
More like this:

Anything between 0? and 90? is not wrong, just personal build & preference. As long as you get the pressure point on the center-line of the bow and in line with your radius bone. Then you're able to relax your hand and wrist and let the grip settle in it's position. Doesn't happen? Wrong hand position (most likely) or wrong grip shape (less likely). Grip tape can help, but first you need to fix hand position and grip shape.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi ThomVis, I see we think the same on this one.
Get the hand right first. Make sure the grip supports that position and gives feedback when the hand position changes.( changes by accident)
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
One of the problems you often see is that people have not been taught to get tbe grip right first. That leaves them struggling later.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Rik, I am not trying to be flippant, but isn't that the reason for all the mistakes we make??
I am guessing that from a normal beginner's point of view, how you hold the bow could seem obvious and not need attention.
When we aim and for how long, could fit the pattern. How we lift and draw the bow?
So many of the details in archery can be " got round" and high scoring archers can be seen to be " getting round them" very well.
I am guessing again, but I think most archers learn from others who have their own " pet likes/dislikes". These get passed on as they work well enough.
I also feel that many of the things that get "corrected" are the things that show up easily, like a dead loose or fly away loose. Other features can get drowned out as they are less easy to spot; and often less easy to put right.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
You're not wrong. It's just kind of shocking that something so simple, and simple to teach, gets missed.
This isn't like trying to teach a correct shoulder position, or BEST "transfer"...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I suppose that the things that get "missed" depends on who is teaching. For some "teachers" it will be something they do when they see a newer archer shooting and possibly looking worried about something. I would guess that most archers get more "tips" from someone near them on the shooting line, and only occasionally rather than on a regular basis. For some, the correct grip is simple... if you aren't crushing the grip to death you are fine.
I have to admit to not being shocked by any omissions; after all, from what I see around me, most archers just shoot, once they finish their beginners' course. Some get a bit of help now and again depending on who walks past and how they are shooting at the time.
Question from beginner... Why do some archers wear a sling?
Answer from more experienced club archer... so the bow can roll forwards.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
"Because you shouldn't hold the bow, and it's embarassing when it goes bouncing down the range..."
 
Hi folks. Thanks loads for all the comments. Surprised there was so much discussion but delighted.

Good advice with the grip tapes etc. I think I will try to get some - maybe just for key contact points to start with.

As for the change of grip, it's my first real coaching session, other than how to hold a bow/point it in the right direction - so lots to learn. Grip change felt v odd but going to stick with it. Also sure there's a golf coach who said if you don't feel a grip change, then you haven't made a grip change. So I must have made 1 hell of a change 😂

Not to derail the conversation - but just saw the price of coach Kim's book 😲😲 think I'll stick with the art of repetition
 
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