Thoughts on blank boss shooting.

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Blank boss shooting gets a mention now and again, and often coincides with threads on Target Panic.
It seems there is a logic in that; the archer is suffering, and one option is to go right back to basics and start with the simplest form of shooting..... just getting arrows out of the bow with nothing to aim at, or more importantly, nothing to worry about. I guess that just shooting up an empty field would be much the same.( in safety, of course)
So, the suffering archer gets back some sort of routine, and the shot process is allowed a chance to run its course, without the continual interruption from the TP aspect. They get back the "feeling of the shot", something that has probably been missing for some time.
In a short time, the archer is feeling good about their form again. They feel the way they used to; a sort of freedom to just shoot.
The next stage in the process is usually to shoot at a target again and the confidence gained seems to disappear as the sight reaches the gold. What the sufferer has not yet managed, is to learn afresh how to shoot at a target with a sight.( If the problem was the fear of spiders; there's no point in looking into empty jam jars, when a spider in a jam jar scares you.)
Blank boss shooting does have its uses, though. Removing a target face, and possibly the sight ,too, can allow the archer a chance to shoot without the distraction of the target face. We can get so used to aiming at the gold that we become unaware of the way it takes over our focus.
When an archer needs to make a change to their form, or refine an element that is getting variable, there is a need to focus on that element. After each shot, the archer should know whether or not they managed the new or refined element in the way they wish. If the archer does not know how they managed that element, they can't really move on.
One example is the archer who drops the bow arm. During normal shooting they don't notice until someone else lets them know.
If the archer moves to a close, blank boss they can aim with their bow hand at some point on the boss. The shot is made and the bow hand is in view and the archer can see where and how it moves. Looking at the bow hand, may upset the archer at first, but after a few more shots they start to see what the coach is seeing and now the archer knows, without any doubt, what is going on.
When asked, " Did you drop your bow arm?" they are able to answer, yes or no, and that is a powerful step in the right direction.
Once the archer sees the difference, they can then make connections with feeling the difference. Feeling the difference and knowing the difference is now part of the archer's armoury. The archer has the means to correct their form, without having to be told by an observer.
" Something's wrong today, but I have no idea what it is." I overhear that quite often when I walk along waiting line. They know something's wrong because the arrows are all over the place. Where the arrows land is telling them something, but not which something is to blame.
The archer has learned to do some elements, almost by accident. By that I mean they did not focus deliberately on how they did it, they just did it somehow while doing other things. It is easy enough to see how this can happen. Beginners can go through the whole shot sequence and get arrows shot quite well. Ask how they hold the bow, and sometimes they are unable to say much more than , " I just pick it up; never really thought about it." Other archers will place their hand in the grip with deliberation and accuracy, so as to repeat the position in detail. They know how they do it, and can demonstrate it.
Some of the elements involved in shooting well, are frequently learned by accident. The accidental nature of that, is not too important at the time, but as other elements improve, the weaker ones spoil our progress and need some attention. Blank boss shooting is a good way to lighten the burden and allow those elements the time and deliberate attention they need.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
I find that most club/county archers (I am not talking about the elite where most shoot a lot of blank boss) start to execute the shot really well but as soon as you put a target back up they go back to what they were doing before. Usually (unlike the elite) because the issue is not working on form, but how they use and focus on aiming, fixation on where the arrows land and a lack concentration on their shot cycle/posture, where the target magically seems to help archers forget chunks of this. IMO no amount of blank boss will fix this.

I think to get the benefit you have to do it regularly(daily) as part of your training warm up routine, for most that is not possible shooting once or twice a week and not why they do archery, so I always put up a target face when working on their form.

Recently the best training device I have found is the new Korean training band with the balls on the end (which puts both hands in a better position compared to a round or exercise band)- Ideal for teaching posture, release and follow through and reinforcing what you are trying to achieve before transferring to their bow and doing it for real - switching back regularly for reference and feel - after all if you cannot do it right with the stretchy band how can you expect to do it right with your bow.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Andrew, thanks for your reply. It is good to read your views and so widen my thinking and deepen some understanding, I hope.heehee.
Paragraph #1 is how I see this, too. Blank boss on its own cures nothing, as far as I can see. Blank boss, I feel , needs a purpose, so that when the session ends there is a chance to review what has been done and time to decide whether or not the purpose was achieved. For some, from what I see where I shoot, blank boss is just something else to do, like blind shooting, bareshaft shooting etc, as if they are separate activities as ends in themselves. " They do it; so I gave it a go."
after all if you cannot do it right with the stretchy band how can you expect to do it right with your bow.
I like that,Andrew. I do notice some archers who struggle with their normal draw weight and it seems to me a stretchy band of some sort , can allow them to better feel what they are trying to do. I also think that the lightness of the band can get them to think about their draw weight without someone else pointing out that they might be wiser to take off a pound or two.
I like training devices. I think the idea of not shooting in order to make some improvement is a good thing to get across. Some archers try to improve while on the shooting line when they are mainly trying to get a better score than last time. They are hoping to improve just by doing more of the same.
I have a stretchy bow string. It is shock cord with end loops of bowstring to fit over their bow's nocks. Their bow is strung, but they draw only the stretchy string, which has a low holding weight. As they get better the draw weight can be gradually increased.
 

steve Morley

New member
I often blank bale at the start of my practice session or tourney, it can be as little as 10 arrows or 30 depending on how it goes, for me I'm checking alignment, shot sequence and feel of the shot without the distraction of aiming, then I'm good to go.

If people are blank baling to fix an issue or add another step to their sequence they need to do 'Bridge shooting' this is a non stress way to slowly bring aiming back into the shot, you just put a very big face on at short range and increase the distance and reduce face size slowly, it allows the aiming to feel easy and the archer keep their priority on the feel of the shot rather than the aim, the aim is really very subtle and normally people run into issues when aiming becomes a bigger priority, the goal of blank bale is to remove that bigger aiming priority but if people don't understand the purpose of blank bale they just walk straight back into the problem when aiming is introduced again.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Steve, A good point about "bridging".
I like the idea of making several small steps between blank boss and the shooting a round. In the mind, it is so easy to see blank boss as one thing and shooting rounds as something different, with nothing connecting them. I guess one of the stumbling blocks in coaching is transferring the skills from coaching session to the shooting line. I hear archers telling me they can shoot well in a coaching session but never outside at the targets. I agree with Andrew on this, the target seems to rob them of the focus they had on their shooting, and they end up aiming, and don't use the form improvement to back it up.
That can lead them into thinking the coaching didn't work. I suppose that is true, in so much as the coaching benefit wasn't put to good use in the rounds. A failing somewhere. I am not blaming the coach or the archer.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
As I've said before when TP has been raised in the same paragraph as blank boss shooting, TP is a reaction to a set stimulus (the sight getting on the gold)
Remove the stimulus, (ie remove the target, change the diopter of the lens so you get a fuzzier picture, remove the sight and shoot barebow) and the "problem" goes away.
Return the stimulus (put the target back) and you're back where you started, in more ways than one.
Geoff uses the analogy to spiders. Me, its snakes. Remove the snake from the room and I'm fine. Substitute for a cuddly toy snake or a photo of a snake, no problem. I must be cured.
Ok, here comes the snake...............
Why remove the target? Why not just shut your eyes?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Ben, Heehee, I love the idea of a photo of a snake.I mean that; I am not joking.
My mind now runs on to a photo copy of a target................
However, joking apart, some archers say they can shoot a Worcester face and not a Portsmouth. Both are shot indoors, so what's going on there? Some say they can shoot the coloured faces of a Fita outside; but not a coloured Portsmouth indoors. Another puzzle??
Some archers can't draw as far as their face and have released well before the sight gets to the target face never mind the gold. Perhaps target panic is a fear of missing rather than a fear of aiming. Or put another way, perhaps the fear builds at the point of starting the shot process. For some, there might be a build up of tension that overcomes them sooner than the point where actual aiming with the sight begins. Fear is already in their shot process from nocking the arrow; do they tremble as the nock wobbles its way onto the string?
 

Breva750

New member
Well my boss gave me a very blank look when I told her I would accept redundancy instead of taking the "amazing" new job she offered me last Monday. I think for a monet she would have liked to shoot me......:burp:
 

Corax67

Well-known member
I hope this doesn't sound too odd but I think there is a problem with blank boss shooting for the average club archer, whether it be to work on form or as a step within the process of addressing TP - the problem is one of time

Although I've only been shooting a couple of years from experience thus far I find the average club archer shoots once a week for a few hours, for example we shoot Saturday mornings 10:00 a 13:00 with an occasional Friday afternoon short session for those who aren't working. If a persons form is all going pear shaped or TP has set in then blank boss shooting can prove incredibly frustrating.

I completely understand that for a competitive archer who is having difficulties and who has the opportunity to practice frequently then this technique may have huge value but for an occasional archer then might it not generate more frustration than improvement as ones weekly fun/relaxation/away from the partner time is eaten up standing 20yds from a boss shooting arrow after arrow.

Personally I have found going back to barebow massively more effective in rebuilding my form than blank boss shooting did when my form tanked - I am far more aware of every step in my shot, bow hand placement, string picture, etc and slowly my scores are improving week by week.



Karl
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
Hi Ben, Heehee, I love the idea of a photo of a snake.I mean that; I am not joking.
My mind now runs on to a photo copy of a target................
However, joking apart, some archers say they can shoot a Worcester face and not a Portsmouth. Both are shot indoors, so what's going on there? Some say they can shoot the coloured faces of a Fita outside; but not a coloured Portsmouth indoors. Another puzzle??
Some archers can't draw as far as their face and have released well before the sight gets to the target face never mind the gold. Perhaps target panic is a fear of missing rather than a fear of aiming. Or put another way, perhaps the fear builds at the point of starting the shot process. For some, there might be a build up of tension that overcomes them sooner than the point where actual aiming with the sight begins. Fear is already in their shot process from nocking the arrow; do they tremble as the nock wobbles its way onto the string?
To be honest, I think its time we got away from this idea of "fear" as its not helpful.
For me at least, TP manifested itself as neither "panic" nor "fear", just as an uncontrollable response (or lack of)
You draw the bow, aim on the target, move the sight towards the gold and the shot is loosed before you get there.
Note I said "the shot is loosed" not "I loose the shot" as it always felt like I had nothing to do with it, something akin to the clicker going off or a badly adjusted release aid.

A friend recently held a length of electrical flex with the ends bared down to the copper. He spent some time gingerly touching and twisting the copper filaments to make a pair of nicely finished ends. He challenged me to touch the ends with my fingers. Sure in the knowledge that the other end of the flex was at his feet on the floor, but still with some slight trepidation, I went to grasp the ends of the wires between my thumbs and first fingers. The moment I made contact with the metal, he shouted "tzzzzzzzzz".
I leaped a foot in the air, as if electrocuted.

Of course, there was no electricity, no danger to me, yet I still responded to the perceived stimulus.

Is this Wire Panic? Was there "fear"? No, just an uncontrollable response to the stimulus.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Corax, I agree with what you say about the time spent on blank boss having to come out of the time that we want to enjoy shooting with friends etc. But there is no one saying archers must do blank boss. It is a tool IF we want to use it. It can replace the normal shooting and having a problem without ever finding out what that problem is. It really is a matter of deciding whether or not to address the problem using some method or just continuing to hope it will sort itself out, or that the problem will be found eventually. You tried barebow and found it worked for you. I think the relaxation allowed by not aiming with a sight, is very similar to bank boss, but it still allows you to shoot " for real" as it were. Blank boss shooting does require the archer to give up their time for a specific reason. It is similar to setting side time for coaching. It is the archer's choice. They decide. Do you go to the doctor or let the illness burn itself out?
Ben, I appreciate the fact that fear is not always the emotion involved. I know for me, there was a real fear that my next shot would be just as out of control as the last. I had suffered on every shot for over ten years so why should the next one go off properly?
Being out of control is certainly true. KSL describes it has having lost confidence in your form. I think that is not the same as never having had confidence, because the archer hasn't shot well enough so far. Losing what you once had is a part of TP. If it is not fear, then it is certainly something not to get pleasure from and a destroyer of confidence. It robs the sufferer of a lot of pleasure. For those who suffer on some shots, as opposed to every shot, it must make them wonder when the next dud will happen.
Perhaps the name is not all that helpful. But I feel some of the supposed cures are far less helpful. Some of the notions that it is incurable are a bit depressing, too.
My TP was the inability to reach the gold with the sight before the trigger went off.It was once described as " impatience with the trigger". Your form could have been called "impatience with the release". In some ways it says some of the truth, But the impatience was not from my desire to shoot quickly. I was unable to manage the aim first.
I think sometimes that a better name might be found. Sometimes my ideas end up being too complicated to be of value as a name." Uncontrollable bad habit", would seem to fit the bill. It does look to an observer as a bad habit; and the sufferers do tend to say they wish they could stop doing it.
I think TP is what I will continue to call it. I don't need to say what it stands, for any more than flu needs an explanation. TP Ohhh That Problem??
 

backinblack

Active member
I think Ben's analogy is bang on. I got TP worst when I was shooting compound and had just the same symptoms as Ben.

It was the strangest sensation I've ever had - almost like someone else had control of my body. I couldn't put the pin on the gold and execute the shot - as soon as the pin got remotely near the gold I'd trigger the release and just could not make myself do otherwise.

Otherwise I agree with the other comments on blank boss practice.
 

hooktonboy

The American
Ironman
American Shoot
Agree with a lot of what has been said re blank boss. I recognise that it has value but not alone. For those of us with limited time (that'll be nearly all of us), what I generally do is mix it up. So have a boss, with a smallish target on (say a 60cm on one side). Blank boss at the blank side side of the target (say shoot 5 and focus on form etc), then shoot one at the target trying to replicate. If you get a good one, shoot another. if not, go back and do 5 more at the blank side, then try again. "Aiming" of course to increase the number you can shoot at the face, that feel like the ones you shot at the blank...

- - - Updated - - -

I think Ben's analogy is bang on. I got TP worst when I was shooting compound and had just the same symptoms as Ben.

It was the strangest sensation I've ever had - almost like someone else had control of my body. I couldn't put the pin on the gold and execute the shot - as soon as the pin got remotely near the gold I'd trigger the release and just could not make myself do otherwise.

Otherwise I agree with the other comments on blank boss practice.
Yep, been there. Compound will ever be a closed book to me for that reason. Scary.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Blank boss is not for every one If like me the sight picture is part of the execution process then having no target is not good for you. secondly it can lead to faults like drifting off the point of aim during expansion which you are not aware of due to a lack aim. I find it better to remove the pressure to hit the target by moving the sight off so that the arrows will not hit the target face.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Backinblack, you had the same problem as me, then. The trigger went off as if another person was deciding when. I wanted to get the sight in position first, but the other person pressed the trigger just before that.I was powerless to prevent it; or so it seemed.In fact, I wasn't powerless, just that TP took away my confidence leaving me feeling I was stuck with it. The problem as I see it is not knowing what can be done to sort it out. Once I was shown what to do, the remedy was fairly ordinary. BUT it wasn't blank boss. heehee
Hooktonboy, I think " NOT ALONE" is a key item. The blank boss has to be used for a purpose; a way of learning something that would be made more difficult to learn if the mind is on scoring and gaining places in a competition, or a round. If the archer just shoots at a blank boss because they have seen someone else doing it, they might have nothing in mind that they want to learn or discover. They look for nothing and find just that!
Hi Jerry, I think you are right, blank boss isn't for everyone. Also, it isn't for everything, I mean it isn't going to help with everything that is wrong with our form. And as Hooktonboy says, it isn't much good on its own if there is no outcome expected before we start the task. How often do archers help someone who has lost an arrow and the first thing they want to know is what colour it is. Knowing what to look for is a great help in finding it.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Ben, Heehee, I love the idea of a photo of a snake.I mean that; I am not joking.
My mind now runs on to a photo copy of a target................
However, joking apart, some archers say they can shoot a Worcester face and not a Portsmouth. Both are shot indoors, so what's going on there? Some say they can shoot the coloured faces of a Fita outside; but not a coloured Portsmouth indoors. Another puzzle??
Some archers can't draw as far as their face and have released well before the sight gets to the target face never mind the gold. Perhaps target panic is a fear of missing rather than a fear of aiming. Or put another way, perhaps the fear builds at the point of starting the shot process. For some, there might be a build up of tension that overcomes them sooner than the point where actual aiming with the sight begins. Fear is already in their shot process from nocking the arrow; do they tremble as the nock wobbles its way onto the string?
This got me thinking about bridging back to aiming... I wonder if anyone has tried the opposite to the "big face" approach.
The comment about photocopies, made me think of a really tiny face. Too small to have any expectation of getting an arrow in the middle, but the right colours/proportions. Then gradually increase the size/distance. The idea would be to bring home the understanding that it's just an aiming point.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Rik, I used that idea after a fashion, when I was working on overcoming my TP.
Because the TP was linked to aiming( triggering a release before getting the sight on the gold) I was advised that blank boss would not help. Once back to a target I would be back to where I started.
The system I was asked to use was a large diameter sight ring and aim at a target pin head.At close range to start off.
The principle is, that a large ring can surround a small pin head with lots of room to spare. Getting the sight round the pin was difficult at first, but once the head was surrounded, there was lots of room for shakes and nervous wobbles, without the pin moving outside the ring. It was vital to get a ring around the pin, but also vital to be able to SUCCEED. Making success more likely was a huge step in the right direction. Success was NOT centering the pin, simply surrounding it. As the worries reduced so did the shakes and getting the pin nearer the middle could be worked on gradually. It almost seemed to happen without being deliberate. It also allowed me to see that aiming was not the sole activity responsible for shooting good shots. THE EXECUTION HAD TO BE DONE WELL, even if the aiming was not that steady.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
Hi Jerry, I think you are right, blank boss isn't for everyone. Also, it isn't for everything, I mean it isn't going to help with everything that is wrong with our form.
In the proverbial "nutshell", blank boss shooting is a tool for a job, but not a panacea for all that ails you.
A distraction free environment to enable you to concentrate on a specific area of your form, probably, but not a one size fits all fix all
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
A distraction free environment to enable you to concentrate on a specific area of your form, p
Hi Ben,
Yes indeed, a tool for clearing away the things that don't matter so much at the time, allowing the archer to focus on the task of the moment.
A bit like a Leatherman gives more power to your elbow. You still need to open out the right part for the right job.
 
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