Trigger travel?

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Since changing over to compound over 25 years ago, the biggest problem I have experienced is with triggering the release.
The finger trigger set to light pushed me towards TP, and overcoming that was all about learning to activate the release without punching.
In an attempt to get some sort of surprise releases, I have tried all the main types of action, including the hinge.
For me, the hinge gave the most relaxing releases.Let me expand on that a little.
With my first thumb trigger I was constantly trying to squeeze the trigger, NOT too hard and not too soft so the release didn't go too soon or too late. I tried the Evo thinking I could get rid of the trigger and just pull. Again, the struggle was trying to find a pull that was not too light or too heavy. Eventually I tried a hinge. The fact that the handle moves and I knew it was moving gave me some confidence. I reached full draw and settled on aim and manipulated my handle in the sure knowledge that it would eventually go off. Wonderful; confidence building; leading to relaxing for the first time in several years. I would have stuck with the hinge but for the fact that I had a couple of misfires and decided not to risk it again.
So, I have almost come full circle. My hair trigger Fletchmatic came with a extension spring. I never knew what that was for and I guessed it had ended up in the box by mistake.
Recently, I have been wondering about trigger travel on a thumb trigger release and trying to find a way to give it enough travel to feel like the hinge. Enough moving going on for me to know I am working the trigger, and not just thinking I am.
The current release aids I have do not offer such an amount of travel; even on the slowest setting there is not enough travel to know it is moving. Then the spring in the Fletchmatic box came to mind! That's what it was for!! It was supposed to replace the rigid hair trigger and bending the spring by pressing gradually, the release would happen at an unknown point.I would feel the thumb moving and know it would activate a release in its own time.
I will be making a sprung thumb trigger for my current Whisper release aid. I guess a blade from my lizard tongue collection should do for starters.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Since changing over to compound over 25 years ago, the biggest problem I have experienced is with triggering the release.
The finger trigger set to light pushed me towards TP, and overcoming that was all about learning to activate the release without punching.
In an attempt to get some sort of surprise releases, I have tried all the main types of action, including the hinge.
For me, the hinge gave the most relaxing releases.Let me expand on that a little.
With my first thumb trigger I was constantly trying to squeeze the trigger, NOT too hard and not too soft so the release didn't go too soon or too late. I tried the Evo thinking I could get rid of the trigger and just pull. Again, the struggle was trying to find a pull that was not too light or too heavy. Eventually I tried a hinge. The fact that the handle moves and I knew it was moving gave me some confidence. I reached full draw and settled on aim and manipulated my handle in the sure knowledge that it would eventually go off. Wonderful; confidence building; leading to relaxing for the first time in several years. I would have stuck with the hinge but for the fact that I had a couple of misfires and decided not to risk it again.
So, I have almost come full circle. My hair trigger Fletchmatic came with a extension spring. I never knew what that was for and I guessed it had ended up in the box by mistake.
Recently, I have been wondering about trigger travel on a thumb trigger release and trying to find a way to give it enough travel to feel like the hinge. Enough moving going on for me to know I am working the trigger, and not just thinking I am.
The current release aids I have do not offer such an amount of travel; even on the slowest setting there is not enough travel to know it is moving. Then the spring in the Fletchmatic box came to mind! That's what it was for!! It was supposed to replace the rigid hair trigger and bending the spring by pressing gradually, the release would happen at an unknown point.I would feel the thumb moving and know it would activate a release in its own time.
I will be making a sprung thumb trigger for my current Whisper release aid. I guess a blade from my lizard tongue collection should do for starters.
I thought "zero travel" was usually recommended?
 

Andy!

Active member
When you start with serious target firearms, you get to understand how many trigger adjustment options there are.
I've noticed that people who take up compound archery without any exposure to firearms will go for a hair trigger or close to it.
Having started with an air rifle with a basic trigger that had takeup and then about half a kilo trigger pressure, I didn't know any better.
With my father and the guy two doors down having competitions shooting matchsticks at 12 meters using this particular air rifle, (Gamo 68) I knew that any shortcomings would be with me.
Eventually I would sit in the side window of our house (surrounded by sugar cane) and snip leaves off the mulberry tree with pellets. I doubt if it was more than 8 meters.
Through all the firearms I've had and used, none of them had hair triggers or zero travel before firing.

Once I tried a ludicrously light trigger on my TOZ-35.
Once you cocked the trigger, turning it upwards would set it off. The idea was to hold your hand open and the natural contraction when you relaxed your fingers would fire the pistol.

It sucked so hard. (But this didn't stop me handing it around for other people to try out. It put everyone off trying it themselves)

Nobody I ever knew in the competitive firearm fraternity was into zero travel hair triggers.
I really don't think that humans are well suited to integrating a zero anticipation action into a deliberate process. Particularly when trying to do two at once.

A take up and a reasonable trigger pressure with some travel have been evident in every successful accurate firearm shooter's trigger setup that I've ever tried.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Rik, I started with a hair trigger, and TP followed, not immediately, but when it came it was very seriously bad. Every shot was wrong; not just the occasional one. I tried all the rest of them when I started to regain some control of my shooting and followed advice of stiff trigger and zero travel. The advice, I feel, is based around a surprise; you don't want a bit of travel "giving the game away", as it were.
I half managed with the different types, in the sense that I did get a surprise, but I always felt a bit unsure that the trigger would go. Some shots I was "pulling the wheels off" and just getting more stressed. There are many archers who succeed with that set up.I didn't really, although I did manage quite well for short periods of time and specially when blind shooting or with no sight.
The hinge release, however has a long trigger travel, as the handle is so long it acts as a level magnifying the movement at the little finger end.Setting it for zero travel would make it dangerously likely to go off too soon. Many are going over towards the hinge types, and having used one, it seems such a lovely way to manage a release. There is a certainty to the action , as you feel the handle turning. The surprise is still there so no anticipation, as the exact time of release is not known.
Thinking that way got me thinking of a long travel thumb trigger. I am not going against conventional wisdom; the long travel I have in mind is much greater than available on standard release aids. My Whisper has about one turn of adjustment on the screw, before the thread is fully backed off and below the level of the release body. I can set it like that and feel next to no difference.
I tied a blade to the trigger last night and had a go with it. The blade bends as I add pressure and feel it bending and soon it's gone!
All I need to do now is work out a way to put the end of the blade where I want it, for my thumb to find more easily.
The best way I can describe this is to liken it to knowing you are pulling through a clicker by watching the pile. The guesswork is taken out of the equation
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Andy!
Does it sound as if I am making a useful addition to my release aid? My little temporary blade does give me a sense of security, in the sense that I know the trigger will go, rather than guessing it might.
 

Andy!

Active member
The security question is never a "one size fits all" bandaid.
What feels insecure to some people leaves quite a margin for others.

Hinge release aids are a hilarious illustration of this.

I'm an early adopter of the TRUball HBX because it can be used either as a trigger or a hinge.
At the time, I shot exclusively a trigger in a Carter Plain 1. Heaviest spring in it, wound down hard and no thumb rest.
It was so hard to press that some people couldn't actually use it if they'd been self trained to use anything with less trigger pressure.
Beginners with no previous experience had no issues at all.
It is a four finger release and lets me load up my entire hand. That reflects how I live my life in terms of grabbing things.

Voluntarily using less fingers to do an important task does actually make me feel uncomfortable. I had to learn to get over that.

The HBX lets me substitute my little finger by gaining a thumb rod to load up instead.
The key finding which gave me a massive security margin was that I didn't have to unload any parts of my hand during the draw cycle when drawing with an HBX.
I can even carefully load middle and index finger grooves with a spectra cord over a pulley, to distribute the load equally and pick up my 60lb weight with it.

I know without a doubt that if I'm gripping this damn thing comfortably, it's never going to let go on me.

And if I crack the shits with it, I can punch it off in desperation. :)

The most amazing part of the HBX was how it divided the people that tried it. Some people swore it was too cold and other swore it was too hot.
I couldn't understand that at all until one of my club members who regularly turns up in Australia's top 10 rotation said it was too cold. He then offered me his single finger release.

It took me about six goes to hook the damn thing up and at that point the realisation got hammered home again that people judge from what they're used to.
I would NEVER use a hinge release that hot.
But that's just my current view from where I am.

As for your addition, what you've actually done is spread the triggering process across a period of time and effort. It is now actually not just an imperceptible instant that the mind can't incorporate into your form.

A George Ryals seminar introduced a key concept to me which is totally lost on 98 percent of archers, but seems to be well known by rifle shooters.

The trigger activation must be part of your form.

Paraphrasing that, It should happen just like a clicker release at the end of an expansion. George puts everything else together in a full seminar of course, but it comes together like this.

These days he calls it "relaxing the wrist" which is anatomically impossible, but it's easy to wrap your head around. If it gets the job done, who cares?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lwxnbrGAvw

Unfortunately, I can't find the online version of the Stan All Products release aid instructions as they gave a written version as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The security question is never a "one size fits all" bandaid.
What feels insecure to some people leaves quite a margin for others.

Hinge release aids are a hilarious illustration of this.

I'm an early adopter of the TRUball HBX because it can be used either as a trigger or a hinge.
At the time, I shot exclusively a trigger in a Carter Plain 1. Heaviest spring in it, wound down hard and no thumb rest.
It was so hard to press that some people couldn't actually use it if they'd been self trained to use anything with less trigger pressure.
Beginners with no previous experience had no issues at all.
It is a four finger release and lets me load up my entire hand. That reflects how I live my life in terms of grabbing things.

Voluntarily using less fingers to do an important task does actually make me feel uncomfortable. I had to learn to get over that.

The HBX lets me substitute my little finger by gaining a thumb rod to load up instead.
The key finding which gave me a massive security margin was that I didn't have to unload any parts of my hand during the draw cycle when drawing with an HBX.
I can even carefully load middle and index finger grooves with a spectra cord over a pulley, to distribute the load equally and pick up my 60lb weight with it.

I know without a doubt that if I'm gripping this damn thing comfortably, it's never going to let go on me.

And if I crack the shits with it, I can punch it off in desperation. :)

The most amazing part of the HBX was how it divided the people that tried it. Some people swore it was too cold and other swore it was too hot.
I couldn't understand that at all until one of my club members who regularly turns up in Australia's top 10 rotation said it was too cold. He then offered me his single finger release.

It took me about six goes to hook the damn thing up and at that point the realisation got hammered home again that people judge from what they're used to.
I would NEVER use a hinge release that hot.
But that's just my current view from where I am.

As for your addition, what you've actually done is spread the triggering process across a period of time and effort. It is now actually not just an imperceptible instant that the mind can't incorporate into your form.

A George Ryals seminar introduced a key concept to me which is totally lost on 98 percent of archers, but seems to be well known by rifle shooters.

The trigger activation must be part of your form.

Paraphrasing that, It should happen just like a clicker release at the end of an expansion. George puts everything else together in a full seminar of course, but it comes together like this.

These days he calls it "relaxing the wrist" which is anatomically impossible, but it's easy to wrap your head around. If it gets the job done, who cares?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lwxnbrGAvw

Unfortunately, I can't find the online version of the Stan All Products release aid instructions as they gave a written version as well.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Andy thanks for all of that. it is going to be helpful, when I get my head round it all. Some bits are still hovering about and not settling in.
"Insecurity", I think I understand that bit. Just to clarify, my insecurity was in the fear of it going off while I was drawing; not at full draw when I was activating the handle to get a release.
I do understand the too hot, too cold aspect. I think that is like too heavy ;too light with thumb triggers and with Evo type resistance activated. It's like too much overhang or too little with a clicker in some ways. I agree that how light or otherwise it feels depends on what the archer was used to at the time.
I was just thinking last night how the blade addition has added a time element, as does a clicker,yes?
The trigger activation must be part of your form.
I would like to explore that further, to clarify what it means.
I believe that the execution of the shot, should be managed as part of "still drawing the bow". With a clicker for example it should encourage the archer to continue the drawing so the click happens during the drawing process; the drawing is more important than getting a click. I think that makes the release less obvious ,less chance of being faked.
With a release aid of any type, I feel the execution or triggering should be running quietly while the drawing feels louder. Does that make sense?
 

Andy!

Active member
Hi Andy thanks for all of that. it is going to be helpful, when I get my head round it all. Some bits are still hovering about and not settling in.
"Insecurity", I think I understand that bit. Just to clarify, my insecurity was in the fear of it going off while I was drawing; not at full draw when I was activating the handle to get a release.
I put "insecurity" as anything you don't have 100 percent confidence in during any part of the shot process. If you're the slightest bit anxious about anything.. it doesn't exactly lay a foundation for high performance.



I do understand the too hot, too cold aspect. I think that is like too heavy ;too light with thumb triggers and with Evo type resistance activated. It's like too much overhang or too little with a clicker in some ways. I agree that how light or otherwise it feels depends on what the archer was used to at the time.
I was just thinking last night how the blade addition has added a time element, as does a clicker,yes?
A clicker has some similarities. If it's set up correctly so that it goes off at the right time and the archer is doing the right thing.

Many years ago, gtek said something very similar to:

Recurve archery is an execution sport.
Compound archery is an aiming sport.

This rang true to me for a certain aspect, but I was still persisting with being annoyed with having no rear sight on a recurve at that point.
Eventually I went FFS and got a lend of Simon Fairweather's compound.
Well... hey, he wasn't using it.

I would like to explore that further, to clarify what it means.
If you look at a recurve shot sequence with all the top archers, it starts from a distinct point and ends at a distinct point which has a remarkably consistent rhythm and timing. The execution is extremely consistent.

Now go back to a beginners line and watch them pull back to anchor and then loose. There's a random amount of time with every shot.
They've got a two separate parts. The draw to anchor part which stops and then an aiming and release sequence starts. There's a distinct transition from one part to the other.

Some compound archers adopt a technique which specifically PREVENTS them from having a smooth transition through the cycle. They totally ignore the front sight until they look through the peep. That forces them into a Draw/Aim cycle too.

If you can get the target in the scope before you've finished the draw, you can be aiming before you put that peep in front of your eye and you're dialled in almost instantly.

So if you're on target and holding your regular hold in the middle of the target and you're expanding until the shot breaks and you follow through... you've just done a single sequence shot cycle. There's no difference at that level between a recurve and compound if you incorporate the release activation as a part of your expansion, just like the clicker does for you.

As I expand, my wrist relaxes as the "weakest link" and my ring finger takes up the load.. and then the HBX releases without the slightest inkling of anxiety.

The trigger activation is not a discrete component which relies upon a moment in time, or a decision. It's become part of the entire cycle but stuck near the end.



I believe that the execution of the shot, should be managed as part of "still drawing the bow". With a clicker for example it should encourage the archer to continue the drawing so the click happens during the drawing process; the drawing is more important than getting a click. I think that makes the release less obvious ,less chance of being faked.
With a release aid of any type, I feel the execution or triggering should be running quietly while the drawing feels louder. Does that make sense?
Yep. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I actually feel that the trigger sequence should be ramping up as the drawing sequence is dying down. Most importantly the aiming sequence bridges the gap between the two so that there NEVER becomes a delineation point.

Realistically, the "surprise" release doesn't exist so much as you totally expect it. The key is never knowing consciously precisely when, so it happens while you're doing something else.

The problem with humans is that we learn to anticipate it and unknowingly set ourselves up with the best conditions to learn to do so. Once you get anticipating down to a fine art, then you move to advanced prediction with collapsing and other fun stuff.

Which sounds easiest to learn to anticipate?

A hair trigger with no creep or travel
or
A medium weight trigger which creeps before it fires?

Which do you reckon describes where most release aids are adjusted to around your club?

Anyway, George Ryals IV provided the glue to bringing the world class Pistol Coaching that I'd had in my 20's, together with what gtek had said about five or so years ago.

If you ever decide to attend or organise a GRIV seminar and coaching session, I totally recommend it. Recurve or Compound.

If you don't understand something he will explain it from a heap of different directions until the penny drops. This happened in Australia for a lot of people.

And we don't even HAVE pennies anymore.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks again, Wonderful stuff!!
Insecurity= anywhere in the shot sequence= in my case with a hinge ;the drawing at the pre landing on face stage= fear of overshooting.
Insecurity= in my case a lack of confidence with the triggering with thumb/resistance action and some uncertainty about it going off. =My fault.
Now go back to a beginners line and watch them pull back to anchor and then loose. There's a random amount of time with every shot.
They've got a two separate parts. The draw to anchor part which stops and then an aiming and release sequence starts. There's a distinct transition from one part to the other.

Some compound archers adopt a technique which specifically PREVENTS them from having a smooth transition through the cycle. They totally ignore the front sight until they look through the peep. That forces them into a Draw/Aim cycle too.
Yes indeed; the stop at the string landing on the face . I've arrived; now for the second bit!!
I am unable to use my right eye, so have a left eye sight and no peep. My draw has the front sight pretty well on the gold all through the draw and the string blur, from right eye, comes into contact with the aperture as the string reaches my face. I can most times manage to get through that landing of the string and into full on finishing without any gaps... I believe so at least.
So if you're on target and holding your regular hold in the middle of the target and you're expanding until the shot breaks and you follow through... you've just done a single sequence shot cycle. There's no difference at that level between a recurve and compound if you incorporate the release activation as a part of your expansion, just like the clicker does for you.
I certainly try to follow that routine, getting the drawing and aiming and triggering to run till the follow through is completed.
When I succeed, it feels wonderfully smooth. I feel good!!! BUT I have to be honest and say that I feel a bit lucky that it all went off so well. I cannot expect such smoothness every shot. Too often, I am trying to do another shot equally as good, only to find it has not finished and I am getting the shakes.
As I expand, my wrist relaxes as the "weakest link" and my ring finger takes up the load.. and then the HBX releases without the slightest inkling of anxiety.
I get most of that when I use the hinge. I am trying to re gain that feeling with my thumb trigger. The blade addition gives me more of a sense that I know what is happening; rather than thinking I am and being proved wrong too often.
Yep. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I actually feel that the trigger sequence should be ramping up as the drawing sequence is dying down. Most importantly the aiming sequence bridges the gap between the two so that there NEVER becomes a delineation point.

Realistically, the "surprise" release doesn't exist so much as you totally expect it. The key is never knowing consciously precisely when, so it happens while you're doing something else.
I follow all of that. I feel that a slight adjustment in my "which is louder" could bring things very close.
ANTICIPATION the invisible killer of good shots. I know what you mean about "surprise and expecting it". The first time I managed a surprise release my heart was thumping for five minutes afterwards. I feel that I am still getting a surprise shot, but with less heart pumping stuff. As for actually anticipating???? I think I look away on some shots; I am working on looking at the gold for longer, but there is work still to do there.
Which sounds easiest to learn to anticipate?
Hair trigger! My current trigger is stiffened by a really string spring; an extra one jammed in behind the trigger. I have no hesitation when wrapping my thumb round it. I know it will stay put till I add a lot more weight on it.
There are only a few compounders near me but I know they instinctively want a soft trigger. I offer some advice but not all are inclined to listen.It seems that some "heretical suggestions" are one step too far.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
This is a fascinating thread - it is however making me feel incredibly inadequate in my approach to shooting.

I came into compound 4 weeks ago for fun (just to get a classification - I am like that) so I was loaned a complete set up by a fellow club member and I am shooting his releases, both Carter thumb releases. As I don't want to fiddle with his release settings I am shooting them as he uses them - the hairiest hair trigger setting ! ! !

All set up for 80yds from the off - no point shooting any closer than that with a compound is there? - took the single piece of advice offered by my kit lender "come up through the target and shoot when you pass through the middle" and off I went.

It's worked quite nicely as I've shot 3 rounds achieving 3 second class scores, two of which were less than 20 points off 1st class. I have no idea of what the shot cycle should be, I have no idea of what the recommended compound form is, it's really been point and shoot and hope for the best :)



Perhaps less knowledge is better in some cases?



Karl

- - - Updated - - -

This is a fascinating thread - it is however making me feel incredibly inadequate in my approach to shooting.

I came into compound 4 weeks ago for fun (just to get a classification - I am like that) so I was loaned a complete set up by a fellow club member and I am shooting his releases, both Carter thumb releases. As I don't want to fiddle with his release settings I am shooting them as he uses them - the hairiest hair trigger setting ! ! !

All set up for 80yds from the off - no point shooting any closer than that with a compound is there? - took the single piece of advice offered by my kit lender "come up through the target and shoot when you pass through the middle" and off I went.

It's worked quite nicely as I've shot 3 rounds achieving 3 second class scores, two of which were less than 20 points off 1st class. I have no idea of what the shot cycle should be, I have no idea of what the recommended compound form is, it's really been point and shoot and hope for the best :)



Perhaps less knowledge is better in some cases?



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Karl, Shooting compound can be done for fun! I love shooting compound; it is so powerful and so gentle. Anyone who wants to shoot groups in the first hour with a bow, should try compound; they are easy to shoot groups with.
I think your compound form sounds like some long bow shooting, apart from the fact they usually come down through the gold.
I don't like hair triggers!
The thing I would add to your post is that shooting quickly with a compound does mean that many of the advantages can't be maximised at those speeds.
There is no point in hanging around for no reason. But the bow can be held for some time at full draw and that short space of time can be used to great advantage. Passing through the gold with the sight requires great accuracy with the timing of the trigger, get it wrong by a small amount and the sight is well off the gold. Just one second in the gold can confirm that you are steady enough to remain in the gold for long enough to align what has to be aligned.Confirm you are still drawing and not collapsing.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Hi Geoff - I think if I was focussed on getting high compound scores then it would drive me to distraction, I cannot argue that I now shoot recurve, barebow and compound like my longbow. Sometimes I even manage to shoot my longbow like a longbow ��

At the level I am playing at it is blinking good fun though - I take on board your comment about speed, a pause once on the gold will undoubtedly help me pick up the few odd extra points I need to get those 1st class scores.

I love a hair trigger release, not that I've known any other type, but I always shot rifle & pistol with very light triggers so it just feels 'right' to me - don't ask me to explain or quantify it because I can't - of course I have been caught out a couple of times when I've fallen off the back wall, which is really really tiny, and pinged an arrow far into the wide blue yonder rather than coming down and resetting (but the subsequent walk around with a metal detector is supposed to be doing me good I've been told).

Hope you find a release that really works for you.



Karl

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Geoff - I think if I was focussed on getting high compound scores then it would drive me to distraction, I cannot argue that I now shoot recurve, barebow and compound like my longbow. Sometimes I even manage to shoot my longbow like a longbow 😜

At the level I am playing at it is blinking good fun though - I take on board your comment about speed, a pause once on the gold will undoubtedly help me pick up the few odd extra points I need to get those 1st class scores.

I love a hair trigger release, not that I've known any other type, but I always shot rifle & pistol with very light triggers so it just feels 'right' to me - don't ask me to explain or quantify it because I can't - of course I have been caught out a couple of times when I've fallen off the back wall, which is really really tiny, and pinged an arrow far into the wide blue yonder rather than coming down and resetting (but the subsequent walk around with a metal detector is supposed to be doing me good I've been told).

Hope you find a release that really works for you.



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Karl,
The hair trigger is not bad in itself. It is what it can lead to that is not so good. Those who mange the hair trigger, do so because they know how, rather than guessing.
I just pressed mine with a kind of " now" in my head. Sometimes, I said now and the trigger didn't go and the bow pulled on my relaxing draw arm.... Twitch!!! It isn't long after that till the finger hovers near the trigger, a little worried about resting on it just too much, too soon; and it goes off before the archer is ready.That panic feeling is not good!
A heavy trigger gives a sense of security, it won't go until you really mean it to. By then the draw can be feeling strong and a strong follow through happens. The triggering can seem so light in comparison to that strong pull, that it feels part of the follow through rather than a deliberate action.
My simple tied on blade was working well. Then I decided to make a more permanent version. So far I have made two versions and both ended up with machining mistakes.heehee. Still, every mistake gets me closer to what I really need, so there is still hope.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Karl, again,
Shooting for fun is a unique experience. It has a child like quality to it that gets lost when we try to shoot better scores. Usually we shoot quickly when we shoot for fun, it seems that's how it should be done.
Like running and jumping over a stream, trying to get right across. Compare that to a long jump competition and, again, something gets lost.
Perhaps I should change that to, "something gets added". Stress, extra care, more preparation. A take off board and a tape measure,too.
We lose the freedom and gain some baggage.
But it isn't all bad news. Some years ago I spent a lot of time on woodcarving and glass engraving and watercolour painting. I took up those hobbies because I enjoyed doing the carving, the engraving and the painting. Finishing was not that important, it was the feeling during the "doing of" that kept my interest.
But , it wasn't long until I wanted to do better carvings, engravings, paintings. The enjoyment of doing was still there but now there was an extra ingredient; satisfaction when I got it right-ish. It's a balancing act, I feel.
 

Andy!

Active member
I love a hair trigger release, not that I've known any other type, but I always shot rifle & pistol with very light triggers so it just feels 'right' to me - don't ask me to explain or quantify it because I can't - of course I have been caught out a couple of times when I've fallen off the back wall, which is really really tiny, and pinged an arrow far into the wide blue yonder rather than coming down and resetting (but the subsequent walk around with a metal detector is supposed to be doing me good I've been told).
So, let me just rephrase the facts as I see them.

You don't see an issue with equipment which has caused you to release an arrow out of control, to a destination other than which you intended?
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I have finished the next version of the blade trigger. I can adjust the weight of the action and the amount of bend required to reach the release point.
It does feel quite like a hinge once at full draw and aiming.
Can't wait to test it outside.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
So, let me just rephrase the facts as I see them.

You don't see an issue with equipment which has caused you to release an arrow out of control, to a destination other than which you intended?

No - no I don't see a problem at all, the equipment didn't cause me to release an arrow out of control I did. Absolutely nothing wrong with the kit.

As I inadvertently collapsed off the back wall my hand contracted by reflex and tripped the release - had I been using a hinge then exactly the same thing would have happened only with my little finger rather than thumb - on a recurve I've cocked up my release more than once before now and flipped an arrow out into the green but it doesn't mean I would stop using my draw hand or the tab on it.

The errant arrow isn't a problem, that's why we have massive overshoot areas and extremely adequate raised borders to our field just in case of a mechanical failure or human error, something I am more than capable of demonstrating on my bad days.


Appreciate your concern though Andy.




Karl

- - - Updated - - -

So, let me just rephrase the facts as I see them.

You don't see an issue with equipment which has caused you to release an arrow out of control, to a destination other than which you intended?

No - no I don't see a problem at all, the equipment didn't cause me to release an arrow out of control I did. Absolutely nothing wrong with the kit.

As I inadvertently collapsed off the back wall my hand contracted by reflex and tripped the release - had I been using a hinge then exactly the same thing would have happened only with my little finger rather than thumb - on a recurve I've cocked up my release more than once before now and flipped an arrow out into the green but it doesn't mean I would stop using my draw hand or the tab on it.

The errant arrow isn't a problem, that's why we have massive overshoot areas and extremely adequate raised borders to our field just in case of a mechanical failure or human error, something I am more than capable of demonstrating on my bad days.


Appreciate your concern though Andy.




Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
My 50lb compound would do 400 yards if I pointed it at around 45deg. I had the use of a 600yard field.
Misfires on compounds tend to go higher than expected.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi KidCurry,
I agree up to a point, but if the archer gets to full draw and then has a twitch I think there is a bit more going on. If the archer starts to creep, and the bow starts to reach that rapid build up back towards the peak weight, there is a sudden and unexpected tug from the bow that works on the bow arm more obviously because it is outstretched and at the weak end of a long lever. The bow pulls it upwards as the hand is above the shoulder most of the time when shooting.
I also think that a light trigger tends to create a situation where the archer approaches the trigger rather slowly and deliberately in case they hit it by accident before they are ready. That slow and deliberate change of focus towards the thumb can take away the sense of drawing against the stops and;bingo!
It isn't the actual equipment so much as the hair trigger set up.
 
Top