Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 31 to 36 of 36

Thread: Straight fletch with less straight arrows

  1. #31
    In the Gold AndyW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    native woodland
    Posts
    910
    Thanks
    39
    Thanked 108 Times in 90 Posts
    geoffretired - your thinking wrt how the oscillation is set up is exactly how i think of it that's why release aid shooters generally get up/down movement if any as there's no finger roll involved. That's why they can shoot a much greater range of shaft stiffnesses. I'm gonna highlight Dels paper quarrel at this point - within reason a x bow can shoot anything.
    I understand fishtailing and porpoising the same as you but it's degrees are what we are interested in.
    A weak spine will highlight the effect to the point it becomes apparent due to the increased amplitude. What we would call fishtailing. A dog of a release will give rise to it as well at varying amplitude. A dodgy release with a weak spine will give much greater amplitude - still fishtailing but big time. The difference will be immediately apparent to anyone seeing multiple arrows shot by the same person.
    I tend to shoot round with the same guys year on year (all compound) and when it happens with us ( spiralling ) we know that the other guy had second thoughts about the shot or it crept up on him and he tried unsuccessfully to re grip thus giving the string a good pluck.
    Do we need another term for the gross movement? Probably not. One's down to the spine and the other to being a bit kak.
    Noli habere bovis, vir. - Bart





  2. Advertisements like those above are essential to keep AIUK running. If you'd like to remove the Google and Ebay adverts and help us meet our running costs, please consider subscribing for only 1.50 per month. Thank you!
     

  3. #32
    It's an X
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Poole uk
    Posts
    20,351
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 1,016 Times in 871 Posts
    Just to clarify, fishtailing and porpoising can also happen to the best releases. All we need to do is get the nocking point in the wrong place or the wrong spine on a recurve. The arrow is thrown head over heels as it were and we get porpoising. The wrong spine means ( if we ignore the flexing for this part) the arrow is waving so the front end is moving across at launch and the tail gets dragged across too; to try to get in line. This is a slow enough waving to get noticed and the fletchings show up as they are close to us and big/bright.

  4. #33
    In the Gold AndyW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    native woodland
    Posts
    910
    Thanks
    39
    Thanked 108 Times in 90 Posts
    I know - that's exactly what I'm saying, even the best finger release has finger roll / lateral movement it's just magnified to a great extent with a weak shaft - it's now observable to the eye.
    Noli habere bovis, vir. - Bart

  5. #34
    It's an X
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Poole uk
    Posts
    20,351
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 1,016 Times in 871 Posts
    even the best finger release has finger roll / lateral movement it's just magnified to a great extent with a weak shaft - it's now observable to the eye.
    I think I agree with that, but just want to check that I am reading your post correctly.
    A finger roll amount, is down to the archer's "skill" let's say.The release is the same on every shot, within reason; and will be the same whatever arrow is shot as the roll is determined by the archer and tension in the bowstring. At the point of release the fingers have no idea what arrow is on the string nor its spine.
    What we observe as fishtailing is the side to side movement of the fletchings which shows up most when the arrows don't match the bow well enough. A weak arrow and a stiff arrow could both produce fishtailing but bareshaft tests would show which way the arrow was mismatched( too weak or too stiff)
    A weak arrow will bend more than a stiff one but that bending happens too quickly for us to see without slo mo videos.
    I am not sure that the extra bending increases the amount of fishtailing we see. It could if maximum bend syncs with maximum tail wave to the same side.I really do not know how often that is likely to happen.
    I see the slow and visible waving of a mismatched arrow as an independent movement quite separate from the flexing caused by the buckling effect of sudden force applied by the string. Buckling amount can change, shot to shot, depending on release quality, but the oscillations are at the same speed/frequency and invisible. The flight of the arrow seen in slo mo adds the two ( flexing and waving) together so we can't separate them out; just like two notes being played at the same time produce a complex waveform.

  6. #35
    In the Gold AndyW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    native woodland
    Posts
    910
    Thanks
    39
    Thanked 108 Times in 90 Posts
    OK - I'm probably confusing matters by calling everything fishtailing. When you've got a left/right nock problem then the arrow will go off to one side and be corrected by the vane and end up waggling relatively slowly which you will see. Then the others as described prior which will be faster oscillations. I call them all fishtailing which I suppose they are but maybe they would be better described as large/slow, large/fast, small fast etc. not all of which would be observable by eye except in the weird double spiraling which is a fluke if you see it. Like you say there will be a jumble up of various frequencies according to conditions. I would guess the very bad release scenario could mimic the left/right nock error due to the excessive displacement and probably set up a double harmonic.
    I'm pretty sure we're on the same lines. Then there's minnowing - don't.

    Just read back and I think you are a - right wrt fishtailing and b - I should stop calling everything fishtailing and stick with Easton. What happens about the other stuff - ? I'm still going with banjo.
    Noli habere bovis, vir. - Bart

  7. #36
    It's an X
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Poole uk
    Posts
    20,351
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 1,016 Times in 871 Posts
    There is nothing wrong with calling everything fishtailing, when we are looking at a video of an arrow leaving the bow in slow motion.
    If we get to a point where someone wants to resolve an issue with their arrow flight, the reasons for the side to side movement are relevant to how we deal with them. I am sure there are many who will not care and for many it will not matter. For those who want to know it is a different ball game. I find I remember things far better when I Know what is going on and why. It is easier then to answer questions from others, who are starting to want to know, too.
    I watched a programme on Kangaroos yesterday and the presenter said the area of Australia that is home to kangaroos is " a million Kilometers square."
    A million square kilometers, sounds much the same thing, but try to find a piece of land big enough to be a million kilometers square!!
    Not on this planet!
    It is good to talk, and bring things out into the open where we can say what we think without fear, and agree to whatever materialises as a result.
    Just putting ideas in print can help us to consolidate what we think; and clarify how we say things next time, in the light of the confusion we sometimes create. I often find that I think I have been clear in a post, only to read a reply which shows just the opposite. We only think we speak the same language; the reality is not so convincing heehee.
    CHeers

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Similar Threads

  1. Arrows not straight in target
    By andyste1 in forum Methodology, Tuning, Coaching etc.
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 18-06-15, 06:20 PM
  2. [SOLD] Bearpaw Delux Fletching Jig: Straight Fletch
    By iggybod in forum Classified Ads: Buy, Sell, Request
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-07-13, 01:09 PM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25-08-07, 11:02 PM
  4. X10 arrows - not straight
    By SimonW in forum Arrows & Components
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 25-04-06, 05:26 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •