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Corax67

Well-known member
Hold on a sec - surely you cannot share a target with someone “outside your household” if you are to comply with the further instruction to issue each solo archer or family group with their own personal target face and target pins.

This would mean the pair of archers on the shared target must swap their face after each end which surely wouldn’t make sense and would cause the field captain a few headaches.


I.E. Target 1 is a family of 4, Target 2 is a solo archer, Target 3 is a pair of socially distanced individuals sharing a boss - all are shooting 6 arrows per end.

All 3 targets would shoot 6 arrows at whatever their pace is (assume T1 shooting in pairs); T1 could then swap archers, T2 would sit down in a safe zone, T3 would have to have the first archer approach the the target to score & draw arrows & change the face before returning to the shooting line to let the second archer approach the boss & attach their face then return so T1 & T3 can then shoot 6.

T1, T2 & T3 (2nd archer) would then approach targets to score & draw with T3 removing face, all return to the shooting line before T3 first archer reaffixes their face before shooting can recommence.

Also add in time for sanitising the T3 boss on each successive face change plus walking time to & fro the boss especially if T3 is at 100yds.


Or have I missed something ?



Karl
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I agree. I don't get what they are trying to say.
I thought that was to make sure no one shot all on their own. Two people is the smallest number allowed in normal rules of shooting.
I couldn't understand the range layout download. It seems to show two bosses side by side in two adjacent lanes.
One has its right leg against the tramline and the other its left leg... putting them both on the same line.....
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Hold on a sec - surely you cannot share a target with someone “outside your household” if you are to comply with the further instruction to issue each solo archer or family group with their own personal target face and target pins...
Or have I missed something ?
Karl
I think you are right. Either one archer per lane or one family per lane.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I thought that was to make sure no one shot all on their own. Two people is the smallest number allowed in normal rules of shooting.
I couldn't understand the range layout download. It seems to show two bosses side by side in two adjacent lanes.
One has its right leg against the tramline and the other its left leg... putting them both on the same line.....
I think what it's trying to convey is to put targets on opposite tram lines when they are at the same distance (to maximise separation) but that it's ok to put targets on the same tram line when they are at different distances (as you get the separation from the distance difference), to allow maximum opportunities for separation on the other side.

Maybe.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I thought that was to make sure no one shot all on their own. Two people is the smallest number allowed in normal rules of shooting.
Is this true. I thought it was a myth. I don't remember seeing it in AGB rules, only club rules.
I couldn't understand the range layout download. It seems to show two bosses side by side in two adjacent lanes.
One has its right leg against the tramline and the other its left leg... putting them both on the same line.....
Yehhh. I think this is to allow families to shoot two different distances in one lane.

I think we can get 4 lanes on our field like this... I've used red lines to show centre of lanes and new shooting lane for safety as we are quite tight for space at the back.
1589446327517.png
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Oh the families thing at different distances might be true instead. Maybe ignore what I said...
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
Is nobody is going to praise AGB for the speed the documents have been produced and on the whole make sense when you have read all the documents, sprinkled with common sense. I wonder if all the golfers picked holes in them being allowed back to play yesterday, clearly not, just a rush to book a tee off time and the tennis players seem happy even if they cannot both serve.

A chance for some to start to shoot again. if they feel it is safe to do so.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I think that AGB have fallen into the common trap when writing documents, that when you already know what it is you are trying to explain, it's hard to know when you are not being as clear as you could be. A few more proof readers cold reading it would have been useful.

However that's all easily fixable and I will definitely praise AGB for their efforts in getting archery going again in the UK.
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
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Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Seems pretty good to me, bearing in mind each club, particularly those on rented grounds and those who cannot leave equipment out 24/7 have some thinking to do before anything happens anyway.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
103. Numbers Present
(a) When any shooting is in progress there must be a minimum of two people present each being a minimum of 18 years of age, one of whom may be a non-archer to act as a lookout. The archer is responsible to inform the lookout of all safety aspects applicable. Where two adult archers are present and shooting together they will alternate on the shooting line so that the non-shooting archer can act as the lookout
Cheers for the plans KidCurry.... I had seen the lines on their plan as centre lines for bosses.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Cheers for the plans KidCurry.... I had seen the lines on their plan as centre lines for bosses.
I will see your bid and raise you...
103. (c) On private land which is fenced all round, where the public has no legal right of access and with a warning notice displayed at all entrances and points of access, the following concessions may apply notwithstanding the provisions of 103(a) and (b) above, Solo shooting by senior archers (ie archers 18 and over) is permitted. Any member shooting on their own is doing so at their own risk in respect of personal injuries.
:)
Is nobody is going to praise AGB for the speed the documents have been produced and on the whole make sense when you have read all the documents, sprinkled with common sense.
Yeh... they look pretty good, but I haven't finished looking for ambiguities yet. An ambiguious document can be worse than none at all, but it's promising so far. :)
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
From the AGB risk assessment...
AGB said:
Archers MUST bring their own Faces and Target Pins to the Range.
That will slow things a bit. Although I guess a club can hand out a 120cm and 80cm for archers to take with them.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
Of course article 103 (c) has limited application in Scotland where there is no act of trespass. As long as they are not doing any damage or breaking any other laws (which is like a major grey black hole), a person is entitled to walk through your land. It’s questionable whether most archery clubs could meet the “developed for the purpose of sport” criteria. You even get idiots thinking they can walk through your garden. (And the only thing that stops them is the privacy limitation which is again very grey).

Stretch
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Is nobody is going to praise AGB for the speed the documents have been produced and on the whole make sense when you have read all the documents, sprinkled with common sense. I wonder if all the golfers picked holes in them being allowed back to play yesterday, clearly not, just a rush to book a tee off time and the tennis players seem happy even if they cannot both serve.

A chance for some to start to shoot again. if they feel it is safe to do so.
Well no - not really

Given that AGB have had almost two months of inactivity in which to brainstorm countless scenarios for a return to shooting and write contingencies then polishing up one of those sets of documents and uploading them to the site within 72 hours isn’t really a stretch.

I mean as a club we had multiple contingency documents written within the first full week of lockdown and which pretty much mirror those of AGB with the exception of family groups (strictly solo shooting had been envisaged in our docs).

We’d planned that the field will be set by 2 members in PPE who will also take it down & we would issue targets that can be stored in named plastic tubes in racks within one of our containers. With all hard surfaces being disinfected before and after a session exposure risk should be minimal.

If a handful of numpties like us could manage it then anyone could.



Karl
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I agree that people in England tend to either be unaware, or ignore the fact that Scotland has its own legal system, and that can be annoying.

Nonetheless, I think that 103c can easily be argued to apply in Scotland. I'd think that a piece of land used by an archery club, set out for archery, and with signs out saying danger archery in progress could easily be argued to meet the "developed or set out for sport" criteria and therefore the public do not have an automatic right of access.

But I can also imagine a lawyer existing willing to argue the point on a no win no fee basis on behalf of someone with an exaggerated view of their rights and an arrow injury.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
Anything can be argued, but you don’t always win. That is the point. Very grey. I have fishermen who think they are entitled to sit in my garden because they have a right to fish. They usually go away when you ask to see their permit, not because it infringes my family’s privacy.

Stretch
 

Stretch

Well-known member
Oh and forgot to say “developed for” usually means that there is appropriate planning consent for re-zoning. Unless you shoot on council land, what are the chances? Putting up fences and bosses does not equal “developed”.

Stretch
 

Timid Toad

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Ironman
Can this part of the discussion now move into this thread please?

Thanks
 
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