What's AVRS?

Cereleste

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
The Easton Z flex stabilisers have an "AVRS chamber for rapid vibration amplitude dissipation after the shot", but it's not explained what this actually means on their website and I couldn't find a relevant patent. Searching online, it seems like it stands for Active Vibration Reduction System, in which "active" indicates that there's a circuit with a vibration sensor and an actuator that actively cancels out vibration. It's not a common acronym.

Given electronics aren't allowed in/on bows, this is clearly not the same as what's inside the Z flex. Based on its mass and that the lightest stabilisers (likely just an empty tube given the cost) weigh about 60g less for a similar length and diameter, is it just fancy terminology for "we put some foam inside"? The internal volume is likely about 180 cm^3 so that would give a fully filled foam density of 0.3 g/cm^3, which is a common value for polymer foams.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
it's marketing... though they're doing their podcast weekly at the moment, so you can always ask
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
Not a straight reply, but AVRS systems have been around for years in Easton stabilisers in some form or another, mostly as a marketing ploy in my opinion. I recall the X7 stabiliser which was around waaaay back in 2009 or so had "AVRS" built in.

Note also that in terms of semantics (IIRC) Easton usually quote the acronym as "Advanced vibration reduction system" rather than the more common "active" used in the field of engineering and vibration control that you are talking about.

The vast majority of stabilisers come filled with foam, and I suspect that this is what is inside based on the weight, as you say. Carbofast have made stabilisers with oil inside to give "Unbeatable Vibration Dampening" but having shot these once they weigh a LOT! Doinker have their suppression mount which is essentially a mass spring system that will target a specific resonant frequency, and I think they tried to do this inside rods at some point as well. The only other method of damping I have seen (besides the standard A-bomb or similar) is to have varying carbon-fibre weave along the length of the tube. "Advanced vibration reduction system" is ambiguous enough to cover any of these! 😂

A slightly tangential fun fact about the Easton Stabiliser line - the changing diameter of the Contour along its length has been found to enhance vibration compared to parallel tubes, especially for compound archers without dampers. Steven Hann from archery supplies (well known Aussie guy) has a video where he discusses this. Not a rigorous experiment, but demonstrates the effect.

So in summary, not 100% sure what's inside, but strongly suspect it is some kind of foam. Perhaps just me being cynical but "advanced" VRS suggests this to be a nothing more than a buzzword marketing ploy to me, and a fancy way if saying 'full of foam like most stabilisers' as you suggest.

Depending on how much spare cash you have and how strong your curiosity is there is one sure-fire way to find out...
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
AROOGAH AROOGAH
... sarcasm and humour alert, do not take the following post too seriously.
You could make the same thing from wood and leather "with natural damping for a smoother shot" but a gullible public wouldn't spend so much on it....
I can sell you some "vibration damping" pills £10 a dozen... note these are NOT the same as my "anti target panic" pills :rolleyes:
Del
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I had a de Towis long rod. It was filled with foam in a specific place and supported in the middle of the foam were a couple of lead rods.
Its vibration damping was superior to anything else I tried at the time.
It lasted a couple of weeks. Then the lead rods, that had been chopped from a longer rod, cut their way through the foam making an unmusical rattle.
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
And all this is before we even ask a) does it actually work, and b) how effective is it really?
Admittedly there have been a few efforts on the stabiliser front to or market or test using graphs showing vibration, but none of these have ever been that rigorous to my scientific mind, and often tend to show the stabiliser being marketed as being significantly more effective (shocker) in just one particularly selected graph.
Evidence to back up various claims made for other bits of equipment are significantly more lacking.

This post got me thinking yesterday about the most ludicrously ridiculous equipment claims I have seen in my time, however.
The one that stuck with me most is perhaps the Hoyt G3 Parabolic limbs that were... the same shape as most other recurve limbs.
The reason it sticks with me is that I was at a competition where a kit monkey was loudly espousing the benefits of a parabola when someone walked up and simply said 'Parabolic? sounds like a load of bolics to me!' :ROFLMAO:
 

ArcheryFox

Active member
You could make the same thing from wood and leather "with natural damping for a smoother shot" but a gullible public wouldn't spend so much on it....
Perhaps not people with excess attachments or training wheels, but the instinctive and barebow crowd love the word "natural"; it's all about finding the right buzzword for your market. And you could drive the price up by adding "handmade" somewhere in there too.
Question is, would it be allowed in the Instinctive or TRB classes etc as being "made predominantly from wood"? 😂
 

Cereleste

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Just found an Easton catalogue from 2001-2002 that mentions the "A/C/E VRS" and the long discontinued Black Max with "AVRS" (with it actually spelled out) which also uses their "AVRS" weight system (a 5/16 thread instead of 1/4 so you could attach them at either end). So back then it was both referring to the inside and the weights. The actual type of foam/whatever could have changed significantly since then though.
I thought cheap stabilisers are empty inside though, as that's cheaper to make and they're not advertised as having any damping material despite more expensive ones from the same company being advertised as having internal damping.
I have a search alert on eBay for broken risers or stabilisers, but fortunately/unfortunately they aren't exactly common. Have thought about heating one end of my HMC+ to take the cap off, examine the inside, then epoxy it back on, but that's just asking for it to come unglued at the wrong time - the only stabiliser that I've heard about breaking is Casey Kaufhold's in the team gold medal match at PanAm last summer.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I had a cartel long rod that I cut up to make a 12" stabiliser and there was nothing inside that.
 

Cereleste

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I had a cartel long rod that I cut up to make a 12" stabiliser and there was nothing inside that.
Tied a small screw on a string and dropped it down a cartel carbon longrod (there's a small hole in the cap on the bow end), can confirm this one's definitely empty too. Curiosity got the better of me and I heated the grub screw on the weights end of my HMC+ enough to remove the screw, and dropped a skewer down inside. Empty all the way down. I highly doubt any stabiliser that's not already advertised as having an internal filler, has one as that's just extra cost for no increase in sales.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I had a tapered longrod back in the late 80s, think it was Scorpion. It was the first foam filled longrod I had come across. All of the longrods I had for compound were hollow and relied on the carbon composite for damping. I'm sure most still do. I used to buy them over long and cut them down to size. All were just carbon tubes.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
I had a tapered longrod back in the late 80s, think it was Scorpion. It was the first foam filled longrod I had come across. All of the longrods I had for compound were hollow and relied on the carbon composite for damping. I'm sure most still do. I used to buy them over long and cut them down to size. All were just carbon tubes.
Was that a sparkly one
 

Stretch

Well-known member
AVRS was first used in the second generation ACE rods. As stated above, Advanced Vibration Reduction System. It’s basically a capsule of powder at the non-distal end. The size of the capsule varied over the 24”, 29” and 34” rods. So a 34” cut down to 29” shoots a bit different from a 29” (but not much). AVRS is only in the longrod.

We used to take them apart (weight end) and re- epoxy all the time. Which is why I have ACE rods in 24”, 25” and 26” :ROFLMAO:

I don’t know if the AVRS has moved on since it was first designed.

I wouldn’t take apart an HMC+, as far as I am aware all you will find is that the carbon is thicker at the base than at the distal end. This improves vibration damping the same way the old taper rods worked but is a bit stiffer due to the larger diameter.

Pro shop Advantage rods had foam damping. Aka an aluminium tube stuffed with polystyrene beads which where compressed by the thread insert. They were heavy but worked very well.

Stretch
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I made a long rod with a chamber at the end where the weights would normally be. The chamber was filled with oil and had a weight inside. The weight had ridges along its length so the weight could move in the oil without rattling.( the ridges were leather strips so they contacted the inner surface of the chamber.) What I liked best about it was the way it balanced the bow, and damped any vibration, while also allowing the bow to move to the target on release. The weight didn't move; the tube moved past it.
It was made from an ally bicycle pump.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Was that a sparkly one
That's the one... white sparkly :) I just found it in my garage. 'Crusader Scorpia FD Carbon System'. I took it down the archery club a couple of years ago to see if anyone wanted it. Not even beginners. Just tried it on my BB and it is really good.
1590819399185.png
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
I had a cartel long rod that I cut up to make a 12" stabiliser and there was nothing inside that.
You say "nothing" but it may have been their special high viscosity damping gas :rolleyes: 🤔:ROFLMAO:
Del
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
That's the one... white sparkly :) I just found it in my garage. 'Crusader Scorpia FD Carbon System'. I took it down the archery club a couple of years ago to see if anyone wanted it. Not even beginners. Just tried it on my BB and it is really good.
View attachment 8160
Ah! "Not even beginners"... And that's exactly what the marketing people want. If each new stabiliser was as as big an improvement as they clam the bows would be immovable by now :ROFLMAO:
Del
 

Stretch

Well-known member
Nothing wrong with old taper tube stabilisers, many really good and really effective products as long as you don’t want to stick a lot of weight on them. I loved my AGF rods but when I was shooting 49# and ACE arrows they wobbled a lot. So I tried an ACE rod (the latest and greatest thing which cost £49.99 :eek:) and never went back. Shot a 24” on a 5 or 6” extender for a very long time. They got even better when rubber hose dampers became widely available.

The Scorpia mentioned above was very floppy when I tried it, maybe the foam has stiffened up? But AGF, Carbofast And Pro Shop all had decent rods. (Couldn’t afford Shibuya, Yamaha, Nishizawa etc but I am guessing they were just as good).

Stretch
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
At the start of lockdown, I made another longrod. I made it from a shower screen rail. It works really nicely.
It looks homemade...... a dirty word in some people's eyes..... it could not possible work as well as a bought one.
String making at the club has all but died out. Several of us make strings and have done for over 30 years. No one wants them because they don't come in a plastic tube with a high price on a professionally produced label.
And yet we do get encouraged to make beginners' courses attractive to possible new members. That is possible with very little change to the actual course. Then the cost of equipment gets discussed and large numbers show up in glossy catalogues.
I really do feel that there is a big gap between the reality of shooting arrows from bows; and the thinking that expensive gear is essential.
You can explain this very carefully as an important part of a beginners' course in the hopes the message gets through.
Then again, you could take a realistic approach.............heehee
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
... loved my AGF rods but when I was shooting 49# and ACE arrows they wobbled a lot. So I tried an ACE rod (the latest and greatest thing which cost £49.99 :eek:) Stretch
Would that be the ACE UHF (UHD?) I may still have one in the attic. Outstanding. Only reason I went to X10 was the ACE varnish chipped when you sneezed on it. I think the X10 was one of the best stabilisers ever made.
I really do feel that there is a big gap between the reality of shooting arrows from bows; and the thinking that expensive gear is essential. You can explain this very carefully as an important part of a beginners' course in the hopes the message gets through.
Good luck :)
 
Top