Easton ACC ACG & Carbon Ones - Discontinued

Steve1968

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Perhaps AGB and clubs will have to reconsider their stance on all carbon arrows, now that Easton have decided to discontinue the ACC and ACG arrows. At the moment it looks like the other manufacturers aren't interested in plugging the gap left by Easton.
 

KidCurry

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Perhaps AGB and clubs will have to reconsider their stance on all carbon arrows, now that Easton have decided to discontinue the ACC and ACG arrows. At the moment it looks like the other manufacturers aren't interested in plugging the gap left by Easton.
I don't think it's AGB or clubs, but the owners of the fields archery clubs have to share fields with that will need convincing. Our club would shoot all carbons if allowed by the owners.
 

Whitehart

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I often wonder why land owners are so switched on to carbon arrows, they have no idea about the rest of our kit and it is only peculiar to the UK even on multi use fields.

I assume it was a well meaning club archer back in the depths of time that said "of course we will find all our carbon arrows at the end of each session"

Land owner "Oh OK is there a problem with carbon arrows?"

"yes they are harder to find than aluminium"...

And the die was cast :)
 

CJ2014

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I often wonder why land owners are so switched on to carbon arrows, they have no idea about the rest of our kit and it is only peculiar to the UK even on multi use fields.

I assume it was a well meaning club archer back in the depths of time that said "of course we will find all our carbon arrows at the end of each session"

Land owner "Oh OK is there a problem with carbon arrows?"

"yes they are harder to find than aluminium"...

And the die was cast :)
They have probably read the Range Risk Assessments, that we all, rightly have to undertake.
 
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bimble

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Perhaps AGB and clubs will have to reconsider their stance on all carbon arrows, now that Easton have decided to discontinue the ACC and ACG arrows. At the moment it looks like the other manufacturers aren't interested in plugging the gap left by Easton.
AGB's stance is all carbon shafts are legal to use... it is often individual clubs who chose to restrict arrows due to using mixed use fields. I very much doubt the field owners have a no "all carbon shafts" clause because I doubt they know the sport that well, but they require all arrows to be found and in turn the clubs decide to ban all carbon shafts because they are harder to find.

Of course, if archers do insist on missing... 😂
 

KidCurry

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I think you are right. It may be archery has itself to blame.
I very much doubt the field owners have a no "all carbon shafts" clause because I doubt they know the sport that well...
As a teacher I was quite surprised how savvy schools are about sharing their fields with other sports and the risks involved. In my experience schools are far more enlightened regarding the safety of people in their care than archery clubs. Probably because their jobs depend on it.
 
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bimble

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I think you are right. It may be archery has itself to blame.

As a teacher I was quite surprised how savvy schools are about sharing their fields with other sports and the risks involved. In my experience schools are far more enlightened regarding the safety of people in their care than archery clubs. Probably because their jobs depend on it.
And even then I suspect they'd simply require ALL arrows to be found... whether they are all carbon, A/C, alu, or wood. Because as long as all arrows are found there is no issue.

Ooooo, where was that thread about people not being allowed to move to longer distances until they've shown themselves to be proficient at shorter distances...?? 😂
 

dave lpb

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The big issues with all carbon arrows are based off of older generation all carbon arrows, arrows that apparently (I say apparently as it’s from before my time) would explode into thousands of pieces of hit by another arrow or damaged, where as modern all carbon arrows break as clean as most other arrows. That and the issues with finding all carbon arrows with metal detectors are based on older all carbon arrows from before such things as nock pins and collars where used, most modern all carbon arrows (especially brands like GoldTip) have enough metal components on them.
 

Stretch

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The big issues with all carbon arrows are based off of older generation all carbon arrows, arrows that apparently (I say apparently as it’s from before my time) would explode into thousands of pieces of hit by another arrow or damaged, where as modern all carbon arrows break as clean as most other arrows.
I’m not sure that is true but it might be something folks have used as supposition. I shot Beman Diva S for a while and never had on break any more messily than an ACE or X10. Only arrow I have ever seen explode was an ACE. Beman Diva+ used to split down the seam but it wasn’t messy - the bonded segments just came unglued.

Mind you there are lots of carbon arrows out there that are pretty much rebranded kite rods but that is no less true now than it was when AFC launched the Exacta.

Do people have real experience of arrows turning to shrapnel? (Serious question!)

Stretch
 

dave lpb

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I’m not sure that is true but it might be something folks have used as supposition. I shot Beman Diva S for a while and never had on break any more messily than an ACE or X10. Only arrow I have ever seen explode was an ACE. Beman Diva+ used to split down the seam but it wasn’t messy - the bonded segments just came unglued.

Mind you there are lots of carbon arrows out there that are pretty much rebranded kite rods but that is no less true now than it was when AFC launched the Exacta.

Do people have real experience of arrows turning to shrapnel? (Serious question!)

Stretch
To be honest I’ve never seen anything other then an AC arrow “explode” and even then that was just a picture going around Facebook. But it’s a “tale” I’ve heard since I started archery.
 

Geophys2

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I've seen a Fatboy disintegrate into dozens of shards when it was hit by another arrow. Luckily it was indoors and we could sweep and vacuum up the remains. If it had been on the grass rugby pitch we'd still be out there trying to find all of the pieces.
 

KidCurry

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Do people have real experience of arrows turning to shrapnel? (Serious question!)
I was at a shoot about 4 years ago. The compound to my right was shooting all carbons. We heard a big bang and spent the rest of the shoot coming across bits of arrow. One was even on the top of a shooting line tent. Found five bits, totaling about 2/3 of the arrow.
Tune a metal detector's sensitivity to ring on a point and insert, or a bullet point. Problem solved.
Sometimes. The fields I shoot on are usually full of rubbish, football pitches are usually the worst with studs everywhere. Most budget end detectors can't discriminate well enough. The best non-motion detector I've seen used is a C.SCOPE CS440XD. It worked very well but I think the ground was clean. Our club now has a Garrett ACE 250, but as we cannot shoot all carbon I doubt it will be really tested.
 

dvd8n

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I've seen woodies explode on the rugby field. It was fun finding all the bits. There was no finding those with a detector - and there were some shards that we never found.

Of course the next time the mower went over them they would be mulch. That's maybe the problem with carbons - they'll never degrade.
 

albatross

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With all carbon arrows frowned upon in clubs that have to share their fiield with other sports due to the difficulty of being unable to use a metal detector to find them (unless aluminium foil is inserted into the shaft). I am surprised that Easton do not impregnate the carbon cloth with aluminium dust.
 

mbaker74

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Tune a metal detector's sensitivity to ring on a point and insert, or a bullet point. Problem solved.
If we tried that on our field you would be investigating a beep every single sweep due to dropped coins and bits of general rubbish that the kids leave behind. A lot of the hits would be bits of chopped up aluminium can that the gang mower has been over and shredded, just as liable to cause injury than a broken arrow, but ignored as its just the kids littering.....
We did loose an arrow on the field once, a compound with the wrong sight mark and he went over the boss.... We lost the light and still hadn't found it so informed the school, and they closed the sports field to all pupils till we found it next day!
 

Stretch

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Ok so the FatBoy disintegrating is the kind of thing I’m talking about. That is an issue where basically what is left is small particle carbon shrapnel. The other stuff, not so much. I’ve seen ACE disintegrate in a way that bits of the shaft were never found even with a metal detector and there was some delamination. If you shoot an x10 up the back of another x10 then most of the aluminium stays connected (in pretty spirals :cry:) but the back few inches of carbon goes everywhere - you couldn’t find it all outside.

So we‘re not talking absolutes; we’re talking increased likelihood. And of course plausible deniability that the 2 inch thread of carbon fibre came from an arrow (Hmmm) Fair enough. Might get more challenging when the only option folks have is spend way too much or shoot alloy. Not that there is anything wrong with shooting alloy unless you need larger sizes...

My take would be that the rule doesn’t get them the safety that they think it does - it’s a partial solution to a troublesome problem. I’d be more worried about a 350fps compound shooting ACE than a beginner shooting cheap carbon at 30#.

Stretch
 

Steve1968

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In the late 80's when I first started archery there was a big issue with Beman arrows. They didn't exactly explode like the stories we've all heard, but they did splinter really badly, especially on contact with a new straw boss that was still hard in most places or if you missed the boss and hit the target leg etc. I have personally seen this on many occasions during the late 80's, I believe Beman received a lot of complaints at the time and decided to research other manufacturing techniques. Can't remember the name of the Beman arrows, but I'm sure it was before the Diva and DivaS arrows.

I believe the reason for the ban on all carbon arrows at some clubs with shared grounds, is not due to them being difficult to find, but due to the fact that carbon splinters are difficult to remove from fingers/hands etc, we were told years ago that carbon splinters are potentially poisonous and could cause other medical issues for the archer (whether this is actually true, I don't know). I remember the story of an archer who overdrew an all carbon arrow and the arrow hit the riser and exploded and buried hundreds of pieces of carbon into his hand resulting in horrific injuries, apparently all the pieces couldn't be removed even with surgery. I can't remember all the details, but I believe the person was never able to shoot again.

I'm talking about things from over 30 yrs ago and going by what I can remember and was told at the time, so please forgive any inaccuracies.
 
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