A-Frame Stands - a Rant

Medoc

Member
Ironman
Have been shooting a double York this weekend in very windy weather and the weekend was undoubtably ruined by the use of A frame stands.

This weekends count of completely un-neccesary breakages (for 4 archers) was 7 X10's and 6 ACE's all done for in the red on the 7/8 line, if H frame stands had been used there would have been no breakages.

Now dont get me wrong I accept that arrows are consumables and get broken, sometimes shooting good groups and smashing them or the odd one that I just get wrong and gets smashed on a leg then I accept that.

Being told by a member of the field party in a jovial manner that "well you can afford it" is not what you need to hear, my response now I am calm enough to write this is, if you are holding an open shoot why not make some proper ******* stands and give the archers a chance of not running up a 3 figure bill (on top of petrol and accomodation costs) you were happy enough to take my ****** money so how about providing for all the archers attending your fudging shoot!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Furface

Moderator
Supporter
Storage? Cost of replacement? To switch a club's stock of stands from A to H frame is a major undertaking. Presumably, if one boss has an H, then archers on those with As would start complaining. The A has been in standard usage for some time - why is it suddenly becoming an issue now?
 

tel

Active member
Fonz Awardee
its becoming an issue because the problem has been identified and some have addressed it. I don't know how most clubs do it, but my previous club didn't hold any tournaments - they just 'set-up' for the regional indoors. For that they held a separate stock of stands and bosses (stands being replaced for 'H' frames as we speak - see current Archery UK). Current club also has different kit for tournaments than the rabble use on a day-to-day basis.
 

Tony_zelah

New member
Couple of questions 1 have you shot at that competition before? & 2 is that the first time you have used A frame stands.
Oh yeah and I'm sorry to read about your breakages, and I agree with you about the unnecessary comment by the member of the field crew.
 

N.Vodden

New member
Ironman
The A has been in standard usage for some time - why is it suddenly becoming an issue now?
i wonder if it is just modern archery that is responsible. Faster and more efficient bows, faster and better manufactured arrows combine to produce much higher arrow speed and greater penetration that older bows with chunky allys.
 

Harlequin-LA

New member
Ironman
Excuse my ignorance ..... At my club it is usual to hang a rubber mat behind the boss to prevent such damage....Was this the case or was the design of the A frame such that that the outer legs ran down the 7/8 line?
 

Watch_Man

Active member
We are phasing in H frames for competitions at our club. So far they are being used for compounds. We have also purchased 10 Whitetail bosses for competition use. We think this will be a good investment in the long term as not only are the Whitetails better for the arrow, they should in theory last much longer and therefore the initial investment should work out no more expensive than buying straw bosses.

There is a storage issue and this is probably the major consideration, especially for those clubs that have to share facilities.
 

moo-mop

New member
Yes you'll get the leg if you hit hit 7/8 on A frames where as it's the 1/2 on H frames (I've lost an x 10 when I shot a blot holding a H frame together too). I know one C/U archer who made his own H frame and took it round to tourneys where they was a high probability of A frames. He then made a lot of H frames for the county so he didn't have to use As so much. I guess though if you're loosing that many arrows the boss around has a bit of a hole as usually (at least a recurve) arrow will survive an leg.

[Edit: Actually A frames are much more annoying indoors as you can't miss putting a 10 on a 3-spot over the leg and you'll create a hole and get a leg every time].
 

Random_guy

New member
We've recently built enough H frames to replace our A frames. It took a couple of days and some dedicated members of the club, but it's done, in preparation for our getting a stock of new layered foam bosses to almost completely replace our straw targets.
 

steve58

New member
I hate H frames! There's far too much wood on the damn things to hit!
Hear hear! One of the more annoying moments of life as a longbow archer is watching an almost new arrow drop over the "shoulder" of the target/boss, catching the corner of the H half way along the shaft. Bits everywhere. Not just a miss, but a miss with a penalty clause. And yes, I know, put them in the straw then they'll be fine, I'm trying!
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Steve58, would you think something half way between H and A would be a better shape? The corners would be behind the boss but the legs would pass well clear of red/gold.
 

not dead yet

New member
Ironman
if the A stands were home made some are made too short and on the 7/8 line i would say they are too short. the top of the Afrrame must be level or slightly above the top of the boss when set.

not sure i think its 6' 3" in length.

i have broken ACE's b4 now on the bolts holding the legs together at the top on short stands.in the 3/4.

soft bosses, speed of bow. etc
good job you weren't all shooting pro tours

medoc i presume you were at the mud bath shoot.
 

Tony_zelah

New member
Breaking arrows is always a shame, but lets be honest what ever letter of the alphabet is used to disobey the stand, with enough practice we'll all shot that less than perfect arrow that will hit the wood one day :hissyfit:
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If worn out target faces are anything to go by, the red/gold is where most arrows land causing softening of the boss. If the frame is close to that region, it will catch more arrows after they pass through the softened straw.
We have some old stands and some new ones. The old ones are made from 6" x 3/4" which presents a small area to the incoming arrows.
The newer ones are 3" x 1 3/4" and are much easier to hit!!
Also, the old dimensions means arrows are more likely to split the wood as more land nearer the edges. The splitting allows the arrow to slow down less suddenly and are easier to withdraw. With the newer and thicker timbers, it is far more likely that the arrow will not split the wood. The arrow will stop suddenly and have to be dug out afterwards.
 

grimsby archer

New member
Would it help if tournament organisers put "A or H frames used" on their flyers?
Alternatively those archers who have a strong preference could always phone the organiser to check what stands will be in use before sending in their entry!
If one style is strongly prefered over another then archers voting with their feet would quickly have an effect!

Our club engineer has developed a folding H frame. In use it looks just like an H frame. It folds kinda like a deckchair, so that in its folded state it takes up no more room than a folded a frame. There is 1/3 more wood involved than an A frame and the design is a little more involved, but otherwise it looks pretty good.
I'll see if I can get some photos at the weekend to show you all. If it works as well as expected, we'll be recycling all our A frames to the new HXs.
 

moley101

New member
Ironman
We shot at A frames both this weekend and last weekend at Ampthill but the bosses were doubled up so we didn't have too much of an issue with hitting the legs.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
Shooting at an A frame at Cleve this Saturday in gusty conditions and got arrows stuck in the legs five times in six dozen arrows... broke three X10s.

Broke a fourth at the Surrey Champs on Sunday which leaves me with five "good" arrows and one that I'd rather not shoot too often.

Looks like I'll be buying new arrows for the rest of the season!!
 

moo-mop

New member
We shot at A frames both this weekend and last weekend at Ampthill but the bosses were doubled up so we didn't have too much of an issue with hitting the legs.
but they were heavy to move and if the other person hadn't been OK to do the lifting I wouldn't have risked it and would have taken them apart on the distance changes.
 

grimsby archer

New member
We shot at A frames both this weekend and last weekend at Ampthill but the bosses were doubled up so we didn't have too much of an issue with hitting the legs.
At the EMAS double fita star this year we got a couple of requests(?demands) for doubled bosses. One in particular wanted a nice soft well used boss on the front with a harder new boss on the back!

How would you all feel about paying extra for the extra bosses? Double bosses cost extra in wear and tear and the money's got to come from somewhere.
 
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