A question on aimimg

A16KSB

Member
Hi I'm relatively new to Field / Trad Archery

I have access to a club with a 20yd range most days of the week and shoot very well just by looking at what I want to hit. I'm not aware of where the arrow tip is, but the arrow is in my peripheral vision , I guess my brain has worked the trajectory at this distance.

When I do get a chance to go outside and shoot further distances I can no longer look at my target, and I have to look higher than my target

I'm not going to get hung up on what this aiming technique is called, (but I am interested) just really wanted to know is this "normal", as I don't understand how an instinctive archer looks at the target and is able to hit it, if the trajectory path doesn't allow it


I hope this makes sense

Keith
 

frustratatosk

New member
Hi Keith,
I agree, it does work surprisingly well! I find (and these techniques are quite personal) it is good to anchor a little way below me eye and not string walk the arrow close to my eye so that my peripheral vision sees more of the attitude of the arrow (if that makes sense.)
As the target gets further away you will get closer to 'point on' and it will become practically impossible not to gap to some extent because the gap will be unmissable. Beyond that your point will move above the target and the arrow becomes a featureless rod in your view like the string.
I find that keeping both eyes open is essential as with one eye you are just looking at the back of your hand! With 2 eyes you actually get to use the 'transparent' details of the back of your hand as a reference.
Rick

But I totally agree that being aware of the trajectory is important and, for myself, when I forget to do that and just think 'my knuckle was in the gold why did I miss?' then it all goes wrong.
Fly with the arrow and the shot sequence isn't over until the arrow is home.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
I'd say...'No don't look higher than the target'. Focus on the target, but be aware that the point of the arrow is somewhere above it.
I may be talking bow locks but the zen moment is when you are simply focussed on what you want to hit and your "inner computer" to borrow a phrase from Glen StCharles) has done the rest.
We all need some sort of reference points and mine are the 10 yard shot (which I can practice into my garage) and a feel for point on range (barely actually measured, as I seldom shoot known distances).
So my only conscious thoughts are about 'point on' (or closer/further... or 'about 10 yard') I try to just let my body/brain do the rest. I generally find that if I start inking oooh I'll aim for that point on the bank behind the target which is about 2' above it... I miss.
The best shots are ones where I've focussed on exactly where I want the arrow to hit and I'm barley aware that I've loosed.
Aim small, miss small, as they say.
Apologies if this is pretentious drivel:(
Del
Above all avoid thoughts like 'I'm shooting high, I must "aim" low' one often just over compensates, better to simply just focus at the belly of the 3D rather than it's kill zone... so it's sort of "aiming low" but you are still focussed on the actual target... not tthinking about the aiming process itself.... Stop me someone please! ;)
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I'm going to go against the consensus of opinion here. My advice is to aim at all distances. You will find that as you practice each distance you don't have to concentrate on the aim so much, but you will learn how to shoot each distance quicker if you deliberately aim, at least to begin with.
I have learned that my point bank range is 45m so at that distance I put the pile directly on the target, if the target is further than that I have to aim above the target, and to do that I find a reference point and put the point against the reference point. (Usually a tree branch or something similar.)
 

A16KSB

Member
When you say point on, I assume you mean when the point is pointing directly to the target, As i shoot I dont see the point of the arrow, should I be looking at it
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
When I started to shoot seriously I would pick an aiming spot at any distance and then draw so that the point of the arrow came onto the aiming point as I got to full draw, then I'd loose. I still do this for the longer distances. I find now with the shorter distances I look at the target and see the arrow point in my peripheral vision, so I am looking mainly at the target but I know where the arrow point is.
 

blakey

Active member
Hi I'm relatively new to Field / Trad Archery

I have access to a club with a 20yd range most days of the week and shoot very well just by looking at what I want to hit. I'm not aware of where the arrow tip is, but the arrow is in my peripheral vision , I guess my brain has worked the trajectory at this distance.

When I do get a chance to go outside and shoot further distances I can no longer look at my target, and I have to look higher than my target

I'm not going to get hung up on what this aiming technique is called, (but I am interested) just really wanted to know is this "normal", as I don't understand how an instinctive archer looks at the target and is able to hit it, if the trajectory path doesn't allow it


I hope this makes sense

Keith
I was talking to somebody on Thursday eve at a twilight shoot, and they were saying that Archery Australia is looking into an Instinctive Longbow division. AA Longbow is pretty weird anyway, really it's AFB, but the intent has always been that it is shot instinctive, apparently. Of course most who shoot AA Target Longbow use a variety of techniques incl POA, gap shooting and various reference points on the butts. This is sort of regarded as cheating by the purists. So I think the deal is that if they call a Division 'Instinctive', then people will shoot it that way, ie without conscious aiming points. Good luck with that because it is impossible to police? However, on the odd occasion that I do see Longbowers shoot here, some of them do claim to shoot instinctive, and they just tell me they always just look at the target. The subconscious brain does the rest. So even if your elevation is over or higher than the target,then you're still simply looking at the target. Ascham says something to this effect. According to the locals I've talked to, practice is the key, lots of it. It takes considerably longer to 'learn' to shoot instinctive, than to aim with a conscious target technique. I can't be bothered with it, because I have a preference for a 'scientific approach', as my mate calls it (trying to insult me!). It's why I shoot barebow, because there are no restrictions on how to aim. But hats off to those who do persevere with instinctive shooting. It is the traditional way, probably the basis of the shooting styles of all cultures, where most archers started off as kids, and these skills might well have been hard wired into the growth process. We all know about the compulsory childhood archery training in medieval England. Lesser known is the training of that other great archery culture, the Mongols. They started riding sheep at the age of two, and shooting from a sheeps back as soon as they had some kind of control. Whole different ball game. :)
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
I think the main problem is distance estimation. (Shooting field at known distances, as in some disciplines is IMO a total nonsense).
It's extremely difficult to analyse what you do or even what you can see. Even the concept of putting the point onto the target, because at say 30 yards the point is bigger than the target. One is aware of both point and target and one can "see" them both, but which is in focus and which are you actually looking at?
I wouldn't argue with English Bowman's method as he's doubtless a better shot than me!
Del
 

blakey

Active member
I think the main problem is distance estimation. (Shooting field at known distances, as in some disciplines is IMO a total nonsense).
It's extremely difficult to analyse what you do or even what you can see. Even the concept of putting the point onto the target, because at say 30 yards the point is bigger than the target. One is aware of both point and target and one can "see" them both, but which is in focus and which are you actually looking at?
I wouldn't argue with English Bowman's method as he's doubtless a better shot than me!
Del
Hi Dell, I cannot really claim to know what I'm talking about, but these guys tell me they don't look at the point of the arrow, they just look at the target. which is finally all I could glean from several attempts at understanding Ascham! I suppose its more obvious with distance shooting, like clout, because the elevation of the bow would be so high in relation to the target. My mate, who tells me I am scientific, says he can judge the angle of his bow arm elevation. He does it to me, starts shouting "higher!" or "lower" before I'm even ready to loose! I do believe that Asian Horse Archery is similar (with regard to looking at the target) because if you use a thumb ring the arrow is on the underside of the bow and you cannot actually look down it because the bow is in the way. I can't get on with it because I always look down the arrow. :)
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
I think the main problem is distance estimation. (Shooting field at known distances, as in some disciplines is IMO a total nonsense).
It's extremely difficult to analyse what you do or even what you can see. Even the concept of putting the point onto the target, because at say 30 yards the point is bigger than the target. One is aware of both point and target and one can "see" them both, but which is in focus and which are you actually looking at?
I wouldn't argue with English Bowman's method as he's doubtless a better shot than me!
Del
As for distance estimation, my coach told me to start guessing distances when out an about, then checking them. So for instance I'd guess the distance to a lamp post, or post box, or car, or whatever when walking to school. Then I'd pace it out and see how close I got. At first I was rubbish, but with practice I improved so now I'm a reasonable judge of distance. Shooting FITA/IFAA field with roundel targets makes it easier because the targets are set distances. That said you usually know how big an animal 3D or flat face should be.

I'm not sure I could analyse what I do easily now, I know it because I developed the technique bit by bit, and also I've spent some time looking back at it so that I can coach others in the way that I shoot. (And with one of my juniors setting the GB National record for U15 Ladies AFB in the GNAS National Animal round the other weekend it seems to be working)
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Yeah, I do the guess and pace thing, it needs to be in representative situations else you soon find that you know how far the lamp posts are spaced!
Those damn course setters ;) always try to catch us out with targets behind a rise so you can't tell if they are 1 yard or 10 yards behind it.
Or a small deer where it looks like a big one.
Del
 

Zhoo Zhoo

Member
I'm not sure I could analyse what I do easily now, I know it because I developed the technique bit by bit, and also I've spent some time looking back at it so that I can coach others in the way that I shoot. (And with one of my juniors setting the GB National record for U15 Ladies AFB in the GNAS National Animal round the other weekend it seems to be working)
And not just with the juniors; my friends who did field archery seriously years ago questioned why I took up the longbow as it's the most difficult to master, and yet in my first 7 months, using the same technique, I've already exceeded the scores of other lady longbowers who have been shooting for many years. This makes me excited to think what I could achieve when I've made the point at each distance I shoot at more concrete in my brain's neural pathways.
 

scribblyfig

New member
I've tried both gap and instinctive at different ranges, had good groups with both. Lately I'm tending to shoot instinctive more,(that is focusing on as small a spot on the target as I can) I just find gap shooting seems to "get in the way" kinda interupts the flow of the shot.It's just personal of coarse, every technique has it's merits you got to try em all to see which suits you. A good consistent form, shot after shot no matter what range is the best advice I've heard plus loads of practice!

Rob.
 
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