AGB - no membership refunds

Kerf

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I see AGB is “.....not considering refunds at this time....”. No surprise there then.
 

Corax67

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The more I read of the CEOs update the more wound up I became

“Your membership fees cover a whole range of benefits for you and the sport, they ensure that we can run the sport safely, they ensure our coaches are DBS checked, they allow us to support our clubs in a number of areas, they enable our teams to compete against the best in the world, they allow us to support our volunteer workforce and they allow us to attract more people into our enjoyable sport. If you would like to see where your fees go then please take a moment to read our Yearbook, which gives you a breakdown and offers an update on some of the programmes your membership fee helps to support. We are in the process of producing this year’s Yearbook, which will be ready in time for our AGM.”

At this time there is zero need to DBS coaches who have no one to coach,
There are no competitions for our teams to attend,
No one is getting attracted into a sport that is suspended,
What support can they possibly be giving to clubs when all clubs are closed??
The shopping discounts are pointless as the retailers are purveyors of ‘non-essential’ items

I don’t care if I don’t get a refund, I’ve paid my money and that’s that.



Karl
 

dvd8n

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I'm always the first to criticise AGB for the level of their fees and the value that they offer in return, but I do feel that they, like many other clubs, businesses and institutions at the moment, are between a rock and a hard place. Any decision that they make with respect to payments made to them and financial comittments made by them will inconvenience someone; while we would all prefer AGB to be as charitable as possible to its members and debtors, the collapse of AGB would benefit no-one.

Any feelings about the profligacy of AGB and their tendency to treat their membership as little more than a source of income are immaterial at the moment; we are where we are and the storm must be weathered.

Nevertheless, I will agree that the communication from the CEO did seem a little brusque and showed little recognition of the financial position of the members; a more apologetic tone would have been welcome in my opinion.
 

Cereleste

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I was a bit confused by "We do not recommend members purchasing their own insurance for the purposes of shooting at home, we cannot guarantee you are safe to shoot from home, from a skill, equipment or home range perspective." The whole point of members having their own insurance is for liability/loss at shooting locations that have are outside AGB's "governance". It's like stating archery GB insurance is not covering me if I crash a car or stab my neighbor. Though I do wonder what the insurance specifically covers given how much of a fuss is made about it.

Has everyone else been refunded for course/competition entries as he said? I haven't, and I'd be rather surprised if AGB seriously expected a competition at the beginning of June to take place when many people (I suspect many judges look deceptively young) are still required to isolate until the 15th.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
I was one (of the many) who called for AGB to refund our membership fees as a result of CV.
However, now I've had time to think about it, AGB is making some attempt to help clubs that are struggling financially by putting them in touch with the sport england coronavirus fund.
They are also organising little videos to keep us entertained in the current climate.
I also accept that AGB does have some overheads such as rent on the ivory towers etc, and things like DBS checks, whilst its true us coaches dont have anyone to coach right now, a DBS check lasts 3 years.
I know this isnt much, but then again, I've never felt that we get much value for our money from AGB at the best of times, so fairs fair I guess.

What I REALLY want to see is a refund from my county and region.
They have no overheads.
They are doing NOTHING that I am aware of for anyone and the few coaching and shooting events that they put on are now non existent.
Mine at least have tens of thousands of pounds in their bank accounts.

So, my message to county and region committees is this: At least give your members credit for this lost year of archery when it comes to renewals in September
 

Andy.D

New member
Not worried about a refund but they could extend the Membership year to account for the lost time shooting. However, they have already said no, when someone enquired.
 

little-else

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Of course they arent going to refund money they spent before they received, they arent in a position to afford to.
more worrying is what will happen with mosy clubs membership though, I estimate we will lose 50% of our members and having cancelled the beginners courses will find it difficult to gain new members this year. As AGB fees equal half of our expenditure at current levels that will fal to a quarter but we will be in deficit for everything else by 25% as well.
We are lucky, we have a contingency fund that will see us through a bad year but if we cant recover our numbers next year then we are stuffed. I suspect that many clubs are in an even more fragile position so what is AGB going to do next year when its income is halved.
It would be tempting to say that the demise of the organisation may be not a bad thing but with all protest votes and organisations you need something to push against so creating a new organisation in a vacuum we be very tricky indeed, better they survive and a groundswell for change create a new possible alternative that then outgows the current one.
I use the term they because I have never felt included and this cant be said ofany of the other national organisations I was a member of. That is not to say any sports organisation delivers everything the members want but the level of disengagement with AGB in the general membership is remarkable.
 

dvd8n

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I think that it's inevitable that club membership will fall; there will be the double whammy of the habit of going to the club being broken and a lot of people having a lot less cash to spend on hobbies.

Clubs and AGB are going to see a lot less cash coming in next year.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
I genuinely feel that AGB does not have the ability to save our sport as we know it post C-19.


Looking at my own club as an example and taking the current thinking that restrictions will probably be in place until September, we will not realistically be in a position to host any beginners courses this year (outdoor only club). This will have a significant impact on our club income as we endeavour to keep membership fees low to assist those in our catchment area on low incomes to participate in the sport.

When we do get back to shooting there will be a period of substantial groundwork’s needing to be completed to render our field usable, calling on the goodwill of members who have not been together in 6 months.

I know we have members who have already expressed that they won’t return to the sport following the lay-off because they will have had zero good weather shooting and no likelihood of any until next spring/summer. Who wants to only shoot in cold/wind/rain week on week?

Our saving grace is we don’t have to pay rent on our ground otherwise we would currently be having a discussion that I know at least one other local’ish club is having about winding up completely before funds run out completely.


There is nothing a AGB can do to inject life back into grass roots club archery once this is all over - they haven’t done anything about it over the past years when there wasn’t a crisis so what hope for us afterwards when they have no money.

The general public will be focussed on picking up the pieces of lives affected to varying levels of severity by the decrease in earnings, loss of work, bills, etc. not on going out to spend money on learning a new sport / taking up a new hobby. If you want fresh air, time out of the house and to meet people then something like Parkrun is free and requires no specialist equipment - we aren’t!


I am thankful I shoot longbow and have access to a wonderful privately owned longbow only venue within reasonable travelling distance (after C-19) that is covered under insurance for members of the British Longbow Society whose £15 p.a. membership fee is significantly less than AGB. I feel for those without such a fallback position.



Karl
 

dvd8n

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It would be tempting to say that the demise of the organisation may be not a bad thing but with all protest votes and organisations you need something to push against so creating a new organisation in a vacuum we be very tricky indeed, better they survive and a groundswell for change create a new possible alternative that then outgows the current one.
There are alternative organisations at the moment like the field organisations, BLBS and STAFFA; I imagine that they may survive better as they don't have the same overheads as AGB. It will be interesting to see if any clubs defect as a money saving strategy.
 

Senlac

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Re the “Update from our CEO”... it is such a poorly written, gruellingly long, tedious email. I would have said “communication” but it fails every test of clear communication. Clearly written by committee. It radiates a bureaucratic and introverted organisation. Everything we loath about AGB.
 

dvd8n

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What I REALLY want to see is a refund from my county and region.
They have no overheads.
They are doing NOTHING that I am aware of for anyone and the few coaching and shooting events that they put on are now non existent.
Mine at least have tens of thousands of pounds in their bank accounts.
This is a good point. In fairness to Scottish Archery they are pretty active but the areas do very little and the rumours are that they have bank balances that are quite astonishing. Now would be a great time to release some money to help the clubs survive. I can't see it happening, though.
 

KidCurry

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I see AGB is “.....not considering refunds at this time....”. No surprise there then.
I guess you would need to return your membership card for a refund, then reapply in a couple of months time or whenever you want to shoot again. Seems messy for a few months delay. As lockdown cannot last many months, I suspect outdoor sports will be one of the first to be relaxed and I suspect it will be a couple of months. But for people and families at high risk, I suspect archery has more than its fair share, like myself I doubt I will shoot this year if there is still a significant threat to my family.
I guess there will be club closures, especially those that were borderline before. I don't think I would expect AGB to protect them as I doubt any sports governing body would have enough money to protect all their associated clubs at root level. I suspect even football clubs will fail. It may be the remaining clubs pick up the displaced archers and become even stronger as tends to happen now.
And if the recession is deep, ie 1920s deep and last years, land rents may collapse, and make archery cheaper for all. It is just too soon to make these calls yet.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Has everyone else been refunded for course/competition entries as he said? I haven't, and I'd be rather surprised if AGB seriously expected a competition at the beginning of June to take place when many people (I suspect many judges look deceptively young) are still required to isolate until the 15th.

Received an email a coupe of days ago from Kent Police Archery about a coaching course I’m booked on for May - they admit they’ve hedged their bets and left it until last minute to cancel (which is fine) and are offering full refunds if we want them.

There is a caveat that the course structure has changed between our booking and commencement & with these changes there is an increase in fees for future like-for-like training so if we don’t claim then we get a place on a new course when available (possibly next year) at no extra cost.

I’ve opted for deferment onto a new course & suspect many others will too, thus protecting AGB cash flow for a while.



Karl
 

dvd8n

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We were reimbursed for the field archery champs in Oban, but whether that was AGB or the club hosting that did the refund, I'm not sure. I suspect that it was the club.
 

dvd8n

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For contrast, I've just had an email in from the camping and caravanning club to say that membership will be extended for however long club sites are closed.
 
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