AGB - no membership refunds

Corax67

Well-known member
Well at least they moved reasonably quickly to update the website with the following:

“In line with government guidelines regarding COVID-19, we are advising that all archery in the UK is postponed in the UK. We are finalising plans for the first phase of the safe return to archery, we are expecting further clarification from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport (DCMS) within the next 48 hours, and will aim to communicate the next steps as soon as it is practicable to do so. We appreciate your patience during this time. There is no change to the current position in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and archery activity remains on hold. We will continue to work with Home Nations as the guidance changes in those territories.“

although I do wonder what they define as practicable.



Karl
 

Corax67

Well-known member
You can't really compare BASC to ArcheryGB. Their objectives are very different. Archery GB is a British Olympic Committee recognized sports organisation. AGB exist to develop the competitive and club elements of archery, provide structure, and a baseline for safety training and competition. The BASC is there to support the individual in free shooting, usually animals. They are not IOC orientated. Compare AGB to the ISF or British Shooting. Then you see very similar situation to AGB. It comes down to whether you just want to go to a field or in your back garden and shoot at something, or you want the benefits of club, coaching, structure, competition etc etc.

Actually it doesn’t - I’ve competed in target air pistol & rifle to national level, clay shooting at county level, full bore pistol (IPSC), Field Target and HFT at national level, been a member of numerous shooting clubs all over the course of the last 40 years or so.

I have received exemplary coaching and support within these clubs at every stage and competed shoulder to shoulder with some of the finest shots in the world at these clubs and competitions.

I have also shot thousands of pellets in my garden range during practice & undertaken (and still undertake) pest control safe in the knowledge I have been comprehensively insured to do so providing it is with the consent of the landowner.

At all levels and in all disciplines I have always received far better communication & support & value for membership money than I do under the auspices of AGB.

I personally feel undervalued and almost “looked down” upon by AGB as a ‘club’ archer with no desire to attain the heights of pathway & don’t get me started on that system. The survival of club archery post Covid will be entirely down to the commitment and dedication of club members who love this sport and will fight for it before it fails rather than anything AGB eventually does from on high.

Please be assured I was one of the 1159.


Karl
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
... A huge number of people regard their AGB fees as "shooting tax".
Yeh.. I guess that is exactly what it is. You don't have to belong to it unless you want to shoot at its affiliated clubs and use its structure. In the same way you don't need to pay road tax if you only want to drive on private land. I suspect most of the archers left, if this pandemic ever ends, will be those that use AGB or cannot be bothered to start something else. I will be happy to pay my £47/yr if it means I don't have to be involved in setting up a new association or even a new club. I can put up with them being off-hand or dictatorial, that doesn't bother me as long as I get to shoot.
 

KidCurry

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Yeh.. I guess that is exactly what it is.
No, I'm wrong. It is simply a membership fee to shoot in private clubs on private land, the same as NFAS. It's not like council tax or income tax that I have to pay regardless. I guess it's whether AGB as a good value as NFAS is the bottom line. It's good value for me but not for others.
 
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dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
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No, I'm wrong. It is simply a membership fee to shoot in private clubs on private land, the same as NFAS. It's not like council tax or income tax that I have to pay regardless. I guess it's whether AGB as a good value as NFAS is the bottom line. It's good value for me but not for others.
I disagree. I pay my fee to the club to shoot at the club on their land. The AGB fee is on top of that.

The thing that you get from AGB is insurance, access to the other clubs, and access to their competition structure (which, if you are into competitions, is pretty good).

But you can't go to an AGB club or an AGB competition without being a member. AGB dress that up as an insurance issue but it's not; it's their choice. Other associations allow guests and day members but not AGB. It's their choice to get insurance that doesn't allow it. The charges are structured such that it soon becomes desirable to become a member. But it's not forced.
 

bimble

Well-known member
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Fonz Awardee
Ironman
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although I do wonder what they define as practicable.
Probably getting an answer back, followed by then having to decide how to apply that to archery. What to allow in case restrictions are brought back again, keep in mind that WA aren't allowing WRS to any shoot until July 1st.

Then there are any rule tweaks to make things safer, such as insisting on double scoring so only one person handles one particular scoreboard for the length of a shoot. Whether to insist on 12 foot spacing for targets, whether to limit the number of archers per target. I suspect there are a fair few judges that might fall into the vulnerable "at risk" group so shoots might not be able to get the number of judges that they might otherwise require. Beginners' courses and coaching would normally require closer than social distancing contact, which would mean decisions whether to allow such things.

They may decide to pass down various restrictions or suggestions to clubs to decide if they can implement or not. My club have targets set out on the field permanently, we have decent toilet and handwashing facilities, we have a covered outdoor benched area for setting up equipment... but many clubs will not. They might require two people to carry a target out, they may not have the ability to wash hands on site, they might require a tape to be run out to set targets, a tape that any number of people might have handled, they might be on grounds that aren't open to the public yet (such as school fields).

Personally, I'm in no rush to be part of a second wave. It's only archery.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
But you can't go to an AGB club or an AGB competition without being a member.
I wasn't aware I could go to an NFAS shoot or BLS shoot without being a member of the NFAS or BLS either. That is interesting. Which other archery associations tournaments, other than AGB, can I shoot at with my AGB card?

... It's only archery.
Blasphemy but true. I think the saddest things I keep hearing from people is not what the lockdown was trying to achieve but how people can get around it. I think lockdown came too late and is being relaxed too early. Hopefully we can restrain ourselves better than the French in Paris yesterday...
 
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Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
You aren’t insured on an NFAS shoot with an AGB card. I know from fairly bitter experience!
But you can shoot as a guest.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
As an interim measure, I would be happy to carry out a light foam boss and shoot at it. With or without a target face.
If the club had a few of those, it would be easy enough to set them out, single handedly, so no need for two to set up each boss.
One archer to each boss, shoot and collect. Archers take it in turn to shoot; and possibly have time periods for different groups to let everyone have a quiet, well spaced, session.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
You aren’t insured on an NFAS shoot with an AGB card. I know from fairly bitter experience!
But you can shoot as a guest.
Are you sure about this? I know that it used to be the case, but I thought that they'd stopped guest membership and that you had to be an NFAS member to take part at one of their shoots?
My local NFAS club has their own insurance so that they can welcome guests who are not NFAS members.
 

bimble

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Blasphemy but true. I think the saddest things I keep hearing from people is not what the lockdown was trying to achieve but how people can get around it. I think lockdown came too late and is being relaxed too early. Hopefully we can restrain ourselves better than the French in Paris yesterday...
Well, they've had considerably stronger lock down measures... might be why they've only had 456 new cases/263 deaths whereas we were at 3877 new cases/627 deaths...

And that is something to keep in mind... people are still dying by their hundreds every day... we could easily hit 40,000 deaths by the end of the month.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
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I wasn't aware I could go to an NFAS shoot or BLS shoot without being a member of the NFAS or BLS either. That is interesting. Which other archery associations tournaments, other than AGB, can I shoot at with my AGB card?
The one that I know for definite is the NFF; their insurance allows any archer to shoot for the day as a 'day member'. This basically means signing the visitors' book. It's up to the club what they charge, if anything.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
We
Are you sure about this? I know that it used to be the case, but I thought that they'd stopped guest membership and that you had to be an NFAS member to take part at one of their shoots?
My local NFAS club has their own insurance so that they can welcome guests who are not NFAS members.
I hadn’t realised our NFAS memberships had run out so applied (and paid) online the day before a tournament. We did the tournament and loved thinking we had joined but the following Monday I got a very stern and quite unpleasant email (on my Birthday too) saying we’d voided everyone’s insurance and were possibly bow carrying versions of the Antichrist. We weren’t insured until we actually received our cards a week or two later.
I said we still had AGB membership but to no avail.
This was our only unpleasant NFAS experience; the rest has been very good.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I'm confused...
AGB said:
Phase 1 - Outdoor only. Family units, solo shooting, and shooting with one other person outside of your household. Social distancing of 2m maintained, between anyone not in the same household.
what does "shooting with one other person outside of your household"? This will restrict clubs to 2 people per session. I think this statement should be deleted as it doesn't make sense.
 

autura

New member
Assume its means, within per target lane, which are 5 meters apart its allow to have a solo, or a family unit, or 2 people where its an individual with one person outside of the individuals household whilst maintaining the 2m distancing as per the general government advise.

Simples!
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Ahhh... "shooting with one other person outside of your household" is not in the club guidelines.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
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I'm confused...

what does "shooting with one other person outside of your household"? This will restrict clubs to 2 people per session. I think this statement should be deleted as it doesn't make sense.
I agree. I don't get what they are trying to say.
 
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