Archery shops - Are they taking the mick? (Online orders)

Emmadragon

Supporter
Supporter
I've worked in the Royal Mail, and all the charges go to the customer at the end. Those nice cards that tell you that the additional postage is £2.50, but the admin charge is £8.50. I do find postmasters are very keen to make customers believe that they're suffering for us, especially small village postmasters.
 


brman

Member
To add to the previous bit on postage charges for the Decut ZX229 plunger:

My fave shop charges £2.50 (large letter) whereas the shop I didn't mention ;) charges £8.50 - Can we agree that some shops are very definitely taking the mick when it comes to these charges?

************************************

Would summarising our collective criticisms on this whole issue thus be acceptable?

1) More honest advertising of 'availability'

2) Better communication of order status


3) P&P charges - see above
To be fair to the "shop you didn't mention" it does say on their website
We review all outgoing post to ensure that the delivery costs are fair, and where the automatically generated amount is too high, we will process a refund after we have dispatched your items. In this way we are sure that your total order, including the postage and packing will be highly competitive.
So you might not end up paying £8.50. Whether you consider a "refund if they feel like it" type approach good enough is another matter ;)

To answer your questions;
1) Yes but.... it is a difficult one, especially for smaller outfits. If they drop ship or order in then ship will they get less business if they are more specific about what they are doing? Does it really affect the customer as long as the order in bit can be done quickly and number 2 is addressed.
2) Agreed. And I think this is the biggest problem. From the comments though I suspect others do not see it as such a problem.
3) Agreed. Or at the very least don't bury the bit about sorting it out later in the small print!
 


As a serious question, what would you guys think is a reasonable time to wait before contacting a company about your online order? I am genuinely interested because I have no idea what to do right now.

I can wait as it's (obviously) not life or death but I currently see no point in going to the club on a Wednesday or a Friday as I have nothing to shoot.
It depends. Some websites state delivery times and if they do and it's gone over, well then contact them straight away as something may have gone wrong.
If they don't say, well legally I think they're allowed 28 days (I'm sure lawyer archers here will correct me if I'm mistaken), but was there an email at least confirming they are aware of the order? If you got one and hear nothing further at all I'd give a nudge after five working days. If you didn't I'd contact them straight away because if they never received your order they can't do much about it.
"available" means "available", not "In stock, here, on the shelf, ready to go"... although it can mean that sometimes.
Most retailers (archery or otherwise) like customers and want to keep them so if you get in touch and ask they will give a straight, honest answer. If you don't like the answer you can cancel or amend your order or wait.
None of this is better than contacting them before placing the order... but who doesn't have 20/20 hindsight? You need to know, it's your money so it's never unreasonable to ask, although there are unreasonable ways to ask. Like the chap I had on the phone this morning. About 10:30. He'd ordered some stuff from our website (we're not an archery site) last night, yes, Sunday night, and I was getting all sorts of effing and blinding and I was effing useless because his order still hadn't turned effing up and he'd "paid for next effing day delivery". (He hadn't, we don't offer it).
 


LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
Just had this reply:-

Good morning Aslan,

Thanks for your message. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but we're closed on Mondays.

Unfortunately, we have a limited number of postage bands available to us on our website and thousands of variations of weights sizes etc (millions, with the combinations of possible products in one order), so, as a matter of course, if there is any overcharge we process a refund once the parcel is dispatched. I hope this puts your mind at rest.

Alternatively, if you phone us, we will quote the correct postage at the point of the order being placed.

Kind Regards

Ros
As I've already made clear, this to me is simply 'not good enough'.

I have my first indoor comp coming up in 19 days so I've bitten the bullet & ordered a pair of Shiby fibres from 'elsewhere', I want a 'bright enough' pin zeroed in before this. P&P was a wee bit more than I consider reasonable (£3.50) but a) I can't really afford to make a bigger order to 'dilute' the charges until a few days before the comp & b) there's actually nothing else I absolutely need until the spring, so no choice really.
 


LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
Unfortunately not :(

It's the
34th ANNUAL INDOOR TOURNAMENT hosted by Killingworth Archers, being held in Wallsend, North Tyneside on 2nd/3rd Nov.
- Should be a larf, the morning round is a Portsmouth, afternoon is a Worcester.

With my 'health issues' the furthest I can travel is maybe Teeside at a push - anything much further would require making a major expedition of it - like a couple of days B&B/Travelodge - which means such events will be few & far between.
 


malbro

Supporter
Supporter
The only problem I had with that one was that I had to call twice to confirm when I might expect delivery - the online account just showed 'processing'.
I wonder if it is the same online store, yesterday I checked why an order I placed on the 4th was still outstanding, all small items and all supposedly in stock according to web site when I ordered. Order showed 'processing' 10 days after it was placed so late last night I emailed the support, had a reply this afternoon to tell me one item on the list is out of stock due to 'a stocking issue in the warehouse', now it was clearly out of stock on the day I ordered the goods so why wasn't I informed about it, proactively sorting the problem would have left me feeling a lot better about the companies service which to date has been pretty good. Now I will be looking at other suppliers especially has I have a real store only 18 miles away. I was there this morning and they didn't have one item in stock, its already on back order and promised for tomorrow and as I will be passing on Thursday morning not a problem, I feel so much better about that service than the service from the online store.
 


KidCurry

Active member
I think this tread is starting to circle but, what is it you expect to pay for the £3.50 shipping and what do you think you are getting charged for?
 


LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
I think the £1.92 'large letter' charged by another shop is acceptable enough.

If I had a choice between 2 shops, 1st £15 + £5 P&P, 2nd £18 + £2 P&P I'll take the later. At least then I know it's the shop getting the money not the courier.
 


Kerf

Supporter
Supporter
I’ve been waiting for a set of off the shelf, new old stock limbs from a Uk manufacturer for two and a half weeks. I sent an email half way through week two and received a promise that the limbs would be posted the following day (last Friday)......they’re still not here. I happen to be a big fan of this company and its products but their customer service leaves much to be desired I am unhappy to say. By comparison I recently bought an archery bag from a different company. They clearly stated it had a lead time of ten days. On day eight I got an email saying delivery would be delayed, and emails everyday after advising me of the expected delivery date. When I received a “shipped” email the bag arrived the next morning by courier despite the original stated delivery method of Parcel Force.
 


KidCurry

Active member
I think the £1.92 'large letter' charged by another shop is acceptable enough.

If I had a choice between 2 shops, 1st £15 + £5 P&P, 2nd £18 + £2 P&P I'll take the later. At least then I know it's the shop getting the money not the courier.
That doesn't make any sense. The cost to the retailer/manufacturer will be the package size. Therefore a small parcel less than 2kg, for example, will be £3.55 or large letter £1.97. It doesn't make any difference if the retailer includes it in the P&P or the product cost the result is the same, the margin doesn't change. In your example the overall cost is £20.00. The shop margin is the same in both cases.

I think, because of companies like Amazon, people have lost track of shipping real world costs if you don't have an entire distribution machine and need to rely on the post office. And, of course, like all small companies based in the UK, I don't get to offload my tax commitment unlike global multinationals.
I just posted a one piece bow. It was 1.6m long. It cost me nearly £40 with insurance. I charged the customer £12.00. I guess some customers would even complain at £12.00 as Amazon could ship it for free.
 


brman

Member
That doesn't make any sense. The cost to the retailer/manufacturer will be the package size. Therefore a small parcel less than 2kg, for example, will be £3.55 or large letter £1.97. It doesn't make any difference if the retailer includes it in the P&P or the product cost the result is the same, the margin doesn't change. In your example the overall cost is £20.00. The shop margin is the same in both cases.

I think, because of companies like Amazon, people have lost track of shipping real world costs if you don't have an entire distribution machine and need to rely on the post office. And, of course, like all small companies based in the UK, I don't get to offload my tax commitment unlike global multinationals.
I just posted a one piece bow. It was 1.6m long. It cost me nearly £40 with insurance. I charged the customer £12.00. I guess some customers would even complain at £12.00 as Amazon could ship it for free.
I agree with everything you are saying but psychologically I can also see where LionOfNarnia is coming from. It somehow seems wrong to be charged more for something that you think it should cost, even if the overall cost is the same.
That said, I would definitely think twice about buying from somewhere that quotes £8 for a small widget, even if I would likely get a refund when they find it fits in a small parcel at £3.55. On the other hand, I think it perfectly reasonable to be charged £3.55 for a small parcel for something might just fit in a larger letter if the shop dug around and did some bespoke wrapping. I say that because I suspect time to package items is a significant cost the shop (a cost the customer has to pay somehow) so (on average) standard sized boxes probably works out no more expensive overall.

I also agree with the comments about amazon. Ebay do the same, they push sellers to offer "free" shipping which ignores the point that it cannot ever be truely free. I do admire amazon's way of doing it though as they really play to that desire to get something for "free". They lure people into paying £10 a month (or whatever) for prime membership on the promise free, next day (sometimes) delivery and everyone uses them because it is free. While ignoring the fact they have actually paid for the postage up front.
 


Rik

Supporter
Supporter
I agree with everything you are saying but psychologically I can also see where LionOfNarnia is coming from. It somehow seems wrong to be charged more for something that you think it should cost, even if the overall cost is the same.
That said, I would definitely think twice about buying from somewhere that quotes £8 for a small widget, even if I would likely get a refund when they find it fits in a small parcel at £3.55. On the other hand, I think it perfectly reasonable to be charged £3.55 for a small parcel for something might just fit in a larger letter if the shop dug around and did some bespoke wrapping. I say that because I suspect time to package items is a significant cost the shop (a cost the customer has to pay somehow) so (on average) standard sized boxes probably works out no more expensive overall.

I also agree with the comments about amazon. Ebay do the same, they push sellers to offer "free" shipping which ignores the point that it cannot ever be truely free. I do admire amazon's way of doing it though as they really play to that desire to get something for "free". They lure people into paying £10 a month (or whatever) for prime membership on the promise free, next day (sometimes) delivery and everyone uses them because it is free. While ignoring the fact they have actually paid for the postage up front.
On the other hand... I got prime (costs £80 pa?) for Prime Video (Good Omens!) and music... The free "next day" delivery is just a bonus. Where I used to choose free standard delivery instead...

Delivery costs, though, I have to admit ditching plans to buy from some suppliers on seeing the delivery added. I kind of object to seeing "courier" rates on something that can be posted. But total cost factors into it, same items from different places with the same overall cost - comes down to individual preference - who I want to give business to. I would not consider delivery a factor in that unless it looked like they were really taking the proverbial...
 


brman

Member
On the other hand... I got prime (costs £80 pa?) for Prime Video (Good Omens!) and music... The free "next day" delivery is just a bonus. Where I used to choose free standard delivery instead...
True, that is also my excuse to keep prime, although I have to admit I tend to use netflix and spotify a lot more than amazon so I am probably fooling myself it is good value.... ;)
 


chuffalump

Member
I use the Netflix app on the Amazon Firestick 😁. As long as I order enough stuff from Amazon over a year, that the postage cost would have been a decent fraction of the cost of Prime, I'm happy enough.
 


Kernowlad

Member
I ordered half a dozen carbon arrows, about £45 worth. £8.50 P&P. I then realised the nocks were too tight on my string despite being very clear on my order that I needed wide nocks. Those came to around £6 and another £3.30 P&P despite them weighing almost nothing and fitting into a tiny envelope. I did ask if they could look at P&P but they ignored it.

This is about the 10th time I've felt the P&P has been excessive with archery kit. I buy a lot of MTB, surf and both running and camping kit. I never feel ripped off on P&P for these.

So whatever the justifications and heart wrenching tales of epic struggles to make a living, archery P&P costs get right up my nose.
 


DarkMuppet

Member
Just when I thought we'd done this subject to death, today my blood is BOILING over what I just got quoted for P&P by a well-known shop.
The goods were a pair of replacement Shibuya fibres & a Decut plunger, total value just over £17
What did they want for P&P for this small order which needs no more than a jiffy bag & a second class stamp?

EIGHT POUNDS FIFTY

For 'standard' postage, not next-day-blowjob-included super service.
No way. I'd rather do without.
My days of feeling guilt over eBay orders are OVER!!!!
Yes, I used their contact form to let them know what I thought, and nowhere near as diplomatically as here.
I know I'm not allowed to name the robbing bar-stewards but here's a cryptic clue-
- take the first 3 letters of the alphabet & reverse them.
😄 I know this well...

This shop does have a good selection of stuff, but they do really need to sort out their delivery charges system as I've been put off a few times at the "jumps" in costs on irrelevant bits.

For example, go and put 2 packs of "nitro pin nocks" in your basket. Postage is £2.20.

Add another pack..... Postage jumps to £4.80!?

Besides the fact that the weight difference wouldn't put the order in the next price bracket in real terms according to the Post Office, if you're made to consider putting in 2 separate orders to just get 3 packs of nocks, I know I just wouldn't (and didn't) order from them.
 


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