Arrows going left as the distance gets further out.

nbuuifx

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My arrows seem to be flying OK but I'm not performing quite as well outdoors compared to indoors. Indoors I shot nice chunky 2114 X7s. I got great grouping and good scores. If I was to be critical of the tuning of the arrow I would say that the fletching was always to the right of the point but I was getting good scores so left that alone.

I use a different pressure button and string for outdoors (the string is identical but it allows me to adjust the nocking point).

Whilst outdoors as I go further away I have to move my sight further left. The difference between 30m and 60m is enough to go from around the middle of the adjustment (Shibuya Ultima) to hitting the end before getting it back on the gold.

According to the Easton charts the arrows I'm shooting should be right, however a bareshaft test also isn't great. At 10m and 20m the bareshaft lands to the left of the fletched group. At 30m it looks like it takes a left turn in the air and misses the boss altogether!

I'm holding 38lbs OTF. Arrow length is approx 29.5". Arrows are ACC 620.

It was suggested that using walkback or french tuning might be good to tune them better so that I don't get this moving left with distance.

The only sort of test I did today was to set left and right for 60yards to get them in the middle - then shoot at 3yards which maintained the same left and right. They went high on the target but it was in line with the centre of the boss where I was aiming.
 


bimble

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Two other things to consider would be;
is your sightbar parallel to the riser? If not you would want to straighten that up so your not adding windage by moving your sight up or down.

and, are you holding the bow vertical when you shoot? If you're canting the bow one way or the other, that will send the arrows off as well.
 


Timid Toad

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You are right handed? Your arrows are too stiff. The Easton chart is only a guide. Tuning at anything less than 30m gives poor, sometimes false results. It's much more reliable at 30m. (How many times have I said this now???)
What's the point weight of your ACCs? A major tweak *might* show a small difference.
 


LionOfNarnia

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Hope this gets a solution. coz I've noticed the opposite in the last 2 weeks.

Well I say opposite, it's sort of exactly the same only I start at 60 yds & work back (Windsor rounds) By the time I get to 40yds I'm cranked against the stop to the right. Pretty sure the sight is fine (Avalon Tec X) & I'm deffo not canting. I've never had the chance to do any bareshaft checks though. The bow was set up by Merlin.
 


nbuuifx

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Yes I'm right handed.

Yes I think the arrows might be a little stiff.

No I'm not canting and had someone check this today.

Point weight is 102gn. Should I try increasing this? If so what to?

Sight bar is parallel to the riser, the amount it moves would have to be a very bent bar and would be easily noticeable. It did it with my previous sight and I've just upgraded to a Shibuya sight and it still does it.

(Sorry for the sharp sounding responses - they weren't intended to be - It's just that I wrote it all out then it failed to submit - so made them short and sweet this time :poulies:)
 


AndyS

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Another vote for "sounds too stiff" I had a similar experience a few years back when shooting 500 ACCs selected from the chart - the bareshafts at 30m were just on the left edge of the boss after seeing a big kick left (I also shoot RH) - My limb bolts were already most of the way in, so I ended up going a full spine weaker (560s) to get the 30m bareshafts into the group. There's no way to prove it was because of the spine change, but my average scores for the rest of that outdoor season were noticeably better than beforehand.

One thing the charts don't cover is limb type - the same weight on the fingers from a light fast 68" limb is likely to give you a significantly different arrow speed to a basic glass 70" limb - and so will likely need a different spine - but both limbs would be the same "T" number on the charts!

In terms of tweaking what you have, then as well as adding weight up front, if you can lose any weight from the back (spinnies instead of plastic vanes / no wrap / shorter serving / etc..) then that will also help them act a bit weaker - I've found weight at the back seems to have more effect than the same weight change at the front, but end weight isn't going to move them half a boss.

Alternatively you could maybe get a couple of weaker bareshafts made up and see if they perform better.
 


LionOfNarnia

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Me- RH, 70" Samick Ideal limbs, 38lbs otf, Avalon Classic 500 spine. 100 grain points.

To do a bareshaft I'd have to strip 3 of my Avalon Tyros, I only have 6 Classics.

Planning on some CX X-Busters for the indoor season then CX Nano Pros for next spring - I did some research & decided CX has Easton beat where it counts ;)
 


Timid Toad

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Me- RH, 70" Samick Ideal limbs, 38lbs otf, Avalon Classic 500 spine. 100 grain points.

To do a bareshaft I'd have to strip 3 of my Avalon Tyros, I only have 6 Classics.

Planning on some CX X-Busters for the indoor season then CX Nano Pros for next spring - I did some research & decided CX has Easton beat where it counts ;)
No substitute for bareshaft tuning. I can assure you your bow isn't tuned until you've done some bareshafting and 3 fletchings is a small price to pay.
Before you splash ?100s on Nano pros get a fletching jig and learn how to make up your own arrows. It'll save you a fortune and they'll be better put together than from a shop.
 


Timid Toad

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"
If I was to be critical of the tuning of the arrow I would say that the fletching was always to the right of the point but I was getting good scores so left that alone."

Those arrows are too stiff too. But big fletchings and short distances disguise it well.
 


LionOfNarnia

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... get a fletching jig and learn how to make up your own arrows. It'll save you a fortune and they'll be better put together than from a shop.
If you'd read my diary thread you'd know I borrowed the club jig & re-fletched the Classics last week. I even posted photos!

So yes, I'll be buying shafts & fletching them m'sel - 4" on the X-Busters, 1 3/4" on the Nano Pros.

Not much point in worrying TOO much about the spines right now, I'm training up to heavier limbs every day I'm not shooting. Will prolly need 400 spine then (44 or 46 lb carbon/foam, either WNS Elite Carbon, Akusta Tenbris or just maybe WNS Vantage G7.)

I will be ordering vanes for the Tyros this week, so I'll do some bareshaft just for the 'eck of it, when I get the chance. atm 6 of them are black/white & the other 3 are green/fluoro green, soon all my arrows will be black/red.

(Ordering flo deep red nocks too, to replace the flo orange they are now. Pins for the Classics, G-nock for the Tyros).

Still wanna know the precise answer to the OP though ;)
 


Timid Toad

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Why would I read other people's diaries - it's rude!
Trouble with diagnosing from a keyboard is you won't get a precise answer. Haven't clapped eyes on the set up, the archer or seen them working together. No idea of style or form.
You'll get a bunch of suggestions to try. You've got my suggestion, based on 15 years of shooting observation and coaching...
 


LionOfNarnia

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I've just given m'sel a good hard kick up the ####!

OF COURSE my fall of shot is further right the shorter the range I'm shooting at :duh:

I had a good read of all the previous threads on this subject (yes, it's one of those Mondays!), and is so often the case, something Geoff wrote gave me a 'EUREKA!' moment.

...and nothing I can do with shafts, spine, centreshot or button will do anything to make it right - It's just something I'll have to live with & learn to compensate for.

Curious?

It's because, like Geoff, I'm a 'true' X-dom. My sight is a couple of inches left of the arrow line so I have to factor in the difference in 'convergence angle', which will be different at every distance.

Means my sightmarks will be more complex, and if there's too much of a 'Westerly' wind I'll run out of adjustment altogether, but now I know, I can work with it.

- Even if it means using a different bow at 20/30/40 than I do at 50/60/70/+
 


Rik

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Nbuuifx, did you mean 620 ACC...? That's a T6 group on the charts and nominally weak for your setup, while the 2114 is a T7 and nominally correct (38lb on your fingers, 30inch shaft - as it's 29.5 and you take the next group up, unless the rest of the figures are borderline).
 


geoffretired

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Putting in context, the cross dominant and sight extension in front of the "other" eye solution.
If I shoot at max range, and if the arrow is travelling parallel to my line of sight with a gap of about 2" then at 100y the arrows land 2" right of the cross. I'd be happy with that.
At 50y they would be 2" right of the cross, and on an imperial round I'd be happy with that.
At 20 y indoors they would be 2" right of the cross and I would want to get nearer the x than that. A small adjustment should sort that.
 


nbuuifx

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Nbuuifx, did you mean 620 ACC...? That's a T6 group on the charts and nominally weak for your setup, while the 2114 is a T7 and nominally correct (38lb on your fingers, 30inch shaft - as it's 29.5 and you take the next group up, unless the rest of the figures are borderline).
Yes they are 620 ACC arrows and yes they still seem too stiff.

If it helps for testing, I also have a set of 500 ACC arrows but they acted even stiffer.

I did have to increase the point weight in the X7s. I use large low profile impulse vanes on these.

Both the 620s and the 500s have matching XS vanes, so are already very light at the rear. They do have wraps but I'd prefer not to lose them.

My bow is a 70" bow. It has carbon limbs.

I think the starting point might be to up the point weight. I have a boss in the garage if it is worth testing anything at short range?
 


nbuuifx

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I'd prefer not to but there are still a few turns available on the tiller bolts so I guess I could take the poundage up a little too.
 


Timid Toad

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Nothing at short range will tell you much. Upping the point weight won't do a great deal from where you are. Upping the poundage a pound or two *will* make a difference. Even if it's temporary, you will see the difference, and have a better understanding of what is going on.
 


nbuuifx

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Nothing at short range will tell you much. Upping the point weight won't do a great deal from where you are. Upping the poundage a pound or two *will* make a difference. Even if it's temporary, you will see the difference, and have a better understanding of what is going on.
I think the max I could get was around 40# when I tested these limbs - so I might try popping it up there and see how the bareshaft reacts and to see if it makes much difference.
 


Rik

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I'd probably double check limb alignment etc first, and reset the sight more or less in line with the string, set the button to a middle sort of tension and centre-shot just outside. If you're going to change things, you have to be sure to be starting from the default position.
 


nbuuifx

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Limb alignment looks good to me, I'll get someone else at the club to give it a once over though.
 


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