Barebow back tension vs Recurve back tension

Whitehart

Well-known member
I would ask Danny Hickman in the UK or John Dremmer USA what they do.......
 


KidCurry

Well-known member
Sounds good.
It is interesting that the draw length can be shortened by half inch and still feel good; when previously it also felt good at half inch longer....So, to clarify, at full draw you are not really increasing the draw length but still pulling so as not to creep; have I got that about right?
Yes, initially the longer draw felt fine. It gave me a degree of consistency as I had a mechanical reference point, ie the bracer. It was like a very soft compound wall if I didn't pull too hard. My problem is that as I change anchor from high to under my jaw as a normal recurve anchor, for 90m, I lose that contact. Although coming forward on my anchor initially gave me a sense of a lost anchor point, with my eyes closed I can come to the same draw length 5 out of 6 times for both anchor points.
And yes, I have to keep pulling to keep the draw length stable and not collapse. I'm currently trying to avoid creeping both forward and backwards.



I would ask Danny Hickman in the UK or John Dremmer USA what they do.......
Hello Whitehart, yes I have chatted to Danny a couple of times about draw, anchor and shooting form. I know Danny has a single anchor and uses gap shooting a lot. I will ask him next time I see him if he comes to a dead draw length or if he continues to draw very slowly. I may ask Mr Dremmer the same question but it always strikes me as a bit of an imposition to ask people questions directly if I don't know them or not invited to ask questions. Although I think he has a website so I may that follow that up.
I have watched loads of his videos and can see no movement in the arrow tip/elbow, anchor at all when at full draw.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks KidCurry, We have a new archer at the club and he has started with recurve barebow. I would like to help him, so getting advice from you will be useful, when I try to help him.
I am also interested in this thread, for my own information. NOt that I shoot barebow, but I just like to know how different disciplines adjust the "standard" form, to suit their needs.
 


Valkamai

Member
Or in the UK I would look to Jason Meehan for advice. Probably the best barebow archer in the country.

Sent from my H3113 using Tapatalk
 


Hawkmoon

Member
I would ask Danny Hickman in the UK or John Dremmer USA what they do.......
Ha! Danny is a bit of a anomaly, he does not use back tension as such but has a strange ability to make his shoulder blades touch, this is his "lockout" just like a compound, if you ever watch him shoot he has a completely dead release because he cannot move his shoulder any further once he reaches his anchor.
For myself I have never use a clicker even when shooting freestyle, the way I do it is I never stop increasing tension until release. The way this works for me is an anchor at the side of my mouth with three points of contact (index finger on the corner of my mouth top knuckle of index finger tight up under my cheek bone and my the middle knuckle of my thumb on the corner of my jaw bone.), with three points you get a repeatable stable anchor, if you only use one or two you can rotate the hand in one or more axis while still maintaining contact. As I reach my anchor I my draw slows right down until I am at my anchor, but I am still slowly increasing pressure to stop my hand creeping forwards, then if I relax my fingers the string just goes, my shoulder rotates and my hand follows through.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hawkmoon, that is about what I say to the archers that I help.
I feel that "stopping and not stopping" can be misunderstood as they can be very similar when considered in more detail. At full draw there must be some pulling happening even if movement is difficult to see or even feel. The problem I have with the idea of stopping, is the way we can then make a deliberate release. By drawing slowly back further and further, the release can happen more naturally; masked by the drawing sensation.
 


assybish

Member
I shoot recurve sighted and barebow the same expand through and release whilst expanding..The anchor point serves as the clicker . Same bows same kit just no sight or long rod .. which don't affect the draw anyway . also shoot border hex 6.5 and 7.7s the same
 


A16KSB

Member
Hi all.
An interesting topic.
Is back tension not related to keeping the scapula/rhomboid muscle activated, whilst the draw elbow in line with the arrow, rather than pulling further back on the string with the arms? so the action is rotational rather than linear.
It is possible to keep pulling back with the arms but no elbow alignment.
What I didn't appreciate is the difference between BB and recurve or am I reading this wrong?
 


Hawkmoon

Member
Hawkmoon, that is about what I say to the archers that I help.
I feel that "stopping and not stopping" can be misunderstood as they can be very similar when considered in more detail. At full draw there must be some pulling happening even if movement is difficult to see or even feel. The problem I have with the idea of stopping, is the way we can then make a deliberate release. By drawing slowly back further and further, the release can happen more naturally; masked by the drawing sensation.
Geoff, it works best if there is no deliberate release, the trick is to keep increasing the pressure on the draw arm but not the fingers, this will lead to the string slipping off the fingers in a surprise release, the most that should be done deliberately is to just relax the string fingers but not consciously open them.
 


Hawkmoon

Member
Hi all.
An interesting topic.
Is back tension not related to keeping the scapula/rhomboid muscle activated, whilst the draw elbow in line with the arrow, rather than pulling further back on the string with the arms? so the action is rotational rather than linear.
It is possible to keep pulling back with the arms but no elbow alignment.
What I didn't appreciate is the difference between BB and recurve or am I reading this wrong?
There should not really be any difference between either style, if you are thinking about the different anchor point, it should not really have any effect on your form or back tension. If you come up to full draw (without a bow) with an anchor point under the chin, it does niot thake much to now move your string hand to the side of your mouth without altering your "T".
The only real difference is the line your hand will take if you follow through. If you anchor under the chin your string hand will travel back in a straight line and end up at the back of your neck, if you try to get to the same end point from the side of your mouth you will be dropping your string hand, so you have to move your hand in a straight line and end up behind your ear.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, the release needs to be made without thinking about the fingers. My view is that the archer needs to be " doing something else" at that time.
IF the archer is thinking about opening the fingers, some other part of the shot is likely to be ignored.( an important part possibly)
In our daily lives, we put things down or out of our grasp, without thinking about the fingers; we are more interested in the object ending up somewhere new/different. We release a ball when throwing it but we are still busy throwing when that release takes place. The mind stays on what was already being done.

Is back tension not related to keeping the scapula/rhomboid muscle activated, whilst the draw elbow in line with the arrow, rather than pulling further back on the string with the arms? so the action is rotational rather than linear.
It is possible to keep pulling back with the arms but no elbow alignment.

I think this is an area that can be misunderstood with ease; or perhaps with too much breaking down into details.
When we get to " full draw".... or to our initial landing points for the "anchor" we are 90+ % there. We still have more to do. But, I don't think it is more drawing or pulling; it is more of what was already happening. When we kick a ball we don't stop when we make contact with that ball, we continue what we were already doing. When we swing a hammer to knock in a nail, the swing continues after the contact with the nail. We don't think of changing the kick or the swing, we continue it. Do we know which muscles to use? Do we need to know?
Well, I think we need to know that we do continue; know that what we do is right. I think that changing what we have been doing up to that stage, is a mistake.
I am aware that different coaches use different words to explain what they mean. I guess they say a bit more to their students, that doesn't need putting down on paper. What really matters is what the archer does after listening to what was being explained. That will depend on how that student understood what was being said.
 


I want to qualify for GMB barebow next year and I have a plan. It is the same plan as my Compound archery was, to shoot the very best form possible irrespective of score. Now I'm quite happy with the way things are going but I need to be sure my understanding of barebow back tension is correct.
Firstly, it appears that for recurve the back tension through the draw at anchor slowly increases to the point the clicker goes and the release. Now my barebow really suffers if I do this as I have no absolute draw position under back tension to give me the repeatable draw length needed for the accuracy I want. My question is... do I come to a dead stop at my draw position while maintaining back tension or should I continue to draw? My gut feeling is I need to maintain a static anchor and back tension to be absolutely repeatable but any help would be much appreciated :)
What works for me is to draw to an initial position, settle into the aim and then start to continue to draw until I reach my full anchor (the string touches my lip) and then release. So I would say that that was back tension through the release
 


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